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Front Axle Nuts: How tight? Alternate nuts?
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ZsZ
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

There are two recesses on the shaft. You peen the nut into only one of them so next time you peen the nut into the other recess.
That simple Smile
After that if you need to loose the nut you need to get new one for around 1-2$ each
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61Scout
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

E1 wrote:
Gauche1968 wrote:
Don't forget to unpeen the nut before taking it off or you might mess up the threads on the spindles. Ask me how I know...... Sad
Gauche, would love to know how to "un-peen..." Tap into the notch underneath with an ice pick? (seems reasonable)

I might brush up on some Basic Instincts to learn this trick...


Ha! I just posted about this the other day. See here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=

It's also in my signature line, fwiw. I also have another punch to make the peen. It's the next size up, I think 3/16" punch with a slot cut into the flat end. I catch the slot on the edge of the nut and then peen over. The slot keeps the peen right on the end of the nut and also helps so it doesn't slide around while you're tapping down. Much cleaner than a chisel, and no chance of splitting the edge of the nut or marring the spindle if it slips.

-Kevin
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

What I did was tighten mine to spec then added JUST a tiny fraction more to give the washer a tiny 'pre-load' just barely enough to cause it to no longer be move-able with the screw driver. [new bearings].

Took it for a few very short test drives, and checked the dr.side and found that the washer IS now move-able, but I still could not feel any WHEEL-WIGGLE (grabbed at 3 - 9 o'clock) at all.

I then sorta messed with the nut a bit, tried to un-peen it a bit, and back it off a bit > I think I was successful, and the washer is more free back there, but still no WHEEL-WIGGLE (maybe that will come with a bit of driving?) >>> but now the nut is a bit loose and turnable by finger?? Is this loose nut (well peened however) any issue at all?

I think I will order 2 more new peen nuts and simply start again fresh...

I am now put off by the high price of those adjustable T2 nuts and shipping costs (I'll wait til I find some used ones somewhere)...
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

T3 Pilot wrote:
MarkWard is on the right track with his comment about the type2/Bay window front axle nuts... Those nuts work perfectly on a Vanagon and provide precise and infinite adjustment possibilities. The only caveat is to note that the Bay bus uses a Right and Left hand thread on the Driver side and Passenger side respectively. (Left hand drive) You need to employ right hand threaded clamp nuts on both sides of the Vanagon. 211 405 670

Fahrvergnügen


I went ahead and ordered 2 right handed adjustable nuts Smile (Happy Birthday - early - to ME) ...expensive little buggers but it will give me a lot of peace of mind knowing that I can adjust any time I want forever Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
. . . But KEN at VANAGAIN in one of his videos says to do it to spec like this, then add 1/4 turn MORE! . . .

Any reflections on this topic?


My reflection is to ignore VANAGAIN KEN. He says to follow the VW shop manual, then dial in another 1/4 turn. That would eliminate what VW has specified after untold man-years of dealing with the matter.

Another 90° tightening angle, depending where you are to start, can place a helluva preload on the front wheel bearing.

What you are trying to achieve, once the bearing assembly has settled into place, is 0 preload with no freeplay . A good mechanic can do this by (dare I say it) "feel".

Richie (near The Burgh)
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epowell
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

I just finished installing my new BAY BUS adjustable front axle nuts... they are really a pleasure to work with - you can adjust them - check it out - and then change it if you are not happy with it > and some time down the road they can be re-adjusted again and again.

What I found was that previously I had used the standard peen nuts and tightened them just slightly PAST where you could move the washer with a screw driver... then drove about 60km and found that after that driving I COULD move the washer even with my fingers and that wheel had pretty good "wiggle" (I would guess even a tiny hair too much even) - - - so this would indicate that the advice, with new bearings and peen nuts to tighten a bit PAST 'moveable with screwdriver' is pretty good advice - however a fully 1/4 turn seems REALLY a lot --- I would not do this.

So anyway, I removed those peen nuts and started to play with the adjustable nuts - what I found was that after you found the right tightness then tightened the allan-lock on the nut, the nut would end up being TIGHTER than before doing the locking. So I had to find the right tightness, then back off a bit then lock the nut >>> doing this multiple times I finally found the right adjustment.

After that I started testing for wheel wiggle - I was trying to get it so there would be ALMOST ZERO wiggle, yet still something noticeable. What I found was that in order for there to be a bit of wiggle the washer had to be left loose enough as to be moveable with fingers - OK, maybe I have strong fingers?? ...but this works for me.

I will keep checking from time to time, and it is nice to know that now I can adjust as much as I want. I would recommend getting these adjustable nuts for sure!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
So anyway, I removed those peen nuts and started to play with the adjustable nuts - what I found was that after you found the right tightness then tightened the allan-lock on the nut, the nut would end up being TIGHTER than before doing the locking. So I had to find the right tightness, then back off a bit then lock the nut >>> doing this multiple times I finally found the right adjustment.


When doing your adjusting have the locking bolt tight enough that you must use a wrench to turn the nut. This way the nut will not tend to add preload as you tighten down on the locking bolt.

With newly installed cups and cones you do want to preload the bearing significantly and then spin the wheel a few turns before backing the bearing back off to zero preload. This will help seat the bearings fully.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

All of this is capturing the fact that the bearing life is a very weak function of axial play in the range of light tension to 0.2mm. I know is doesn't feel good to think of the bearing moving but if there are 10 rollers bearing weight, that's only 50 pounds or so on each roller , swathed in grease.

Running a Bus with no problems for 10 years doesn't validate any particular method, it's validating the bearing design as tolerant of variances.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

Tire diameter is another consideration as to how heavily the bearings get loaded. They weren't designed for 27.75 dia. tires (longer lever) and I find that the bearings need more attention than when I ran stock (shorter lever).
I like the adjustable nut concept and will be installing them before the next adventure.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

Mercedes axle nuts are adjusted using a dial gauge as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOj5WbrXQZE. I wonder if Vanagons could be done using this method?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

Nuthin2It wrote:
Mercedes axle nuts are adjusted using a dial gauge as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOj5WbrXQZE. I wonder if Vanagons could be done using this method?


That is the method that VW gives for doing the front wheel bearing preload on a Bay Window bus, you could surely do it on a Vanagon if you so desired. Doing the washer trick is much easier though.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

Since I am hasty, and have screwed around looking for 30 minutes without any hint as to where on the internet to click to get the glorious $10/per and $X shipping as mentioned above, could someone help steer me please?

Searched my usual suspects/websites for

211 405 670
spindle nut
axle nut
locking spindle
...

Amazon came up with a close match, but for Bugs.

Thanks,

-bobby
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

Locking spindle nut 18x1.0

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]


https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/90146/Axle-Nut-1163340372/
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Locking spindle nut 18x1.0

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]


https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/90146/Axle-Nut-1163340372/
Holy Moly, Thanks Dave, those are an absolute no-brainer! Very similar to the locking collars I'm used to from racing. Wonder if there's a known torque setting...

I honestly had no idea these were also threaded!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

The later Beetles had these clamps, according to The Orange Bentley the allen head locking bolt is tightened to 7 max 9 foot lbs.

Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

E1 wrote:
Thanks!

X2 Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

Now that is remarkable, thanks Dave!! total for 2+ship was less than $15, site took paypal too. Done deal right there!

Regards,

-bobby
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

My front axle nuts arrived, just need to put a couple of bolts in and they're good to go!
Good stuff, genuine Mercedes Benz parts.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Front Axle Nuts: how tight do you tighten them? Reply with quote

You will need a bolt,
6mm x 1.0 x 25mm +/-

I am unclear if a washer is needed, Any Mercedes people out there?

Dave
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