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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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tencentlife wrote: |
...Look at the back end of your linkage, your problem is most likely to have started there. |
Thanks Chris - I just examined that area you suggested and finally found something that looks bad.
I could easily move the input lever through 3 & 4 and push it is and select 1st but when I had it firmly in 1st I was still able to move the operating shaft for & aft quite a bit:
Link
So that looks like a lot of slop in the connection. I think we're talking about this part?
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10078 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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That's the part, but rather than loosening on the input shaft, yours looks like the ball end has gone AWOL. Broken to bits I'd bet, which explains how suddenly this came on. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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Yes, a complete failure of that plastic ball accounts for both the symptoms and the suddenness.
The slop I show in the video is front-to-back but similar slop would occur side-to-side -- meaning a lot more side action would be required to get into 1st & 2nd (check) and the shift for 3-4 would be okay but very vague (double check).
I suppose the metal tang extends down inside that ball which is why I am still able to shift at all.
Thanks to all for advice and ideas they offered. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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When you go to change the ball, drill a tiny hole (~5/64") in the bottom of the cup so that you can use a needle to pump grease into the cup occasionally. |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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Thanks - good idea. I've never been a 'lubed-for-life' kind of guy. |
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70coupyel Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2006 Posts: 1657 Location: So.Cal
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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Also check the wear on the inside of the cup. The wear inside the cup was the reason my shifting was not right. The first I got to play with this. I would say sticking my finger in there it at least ten thousands deep(0.010) I flipped it drove a few days and got a new part.
Also remember that the bracket in the back(by the cup/ball) gets mounted to the front of the van. _________________
TheAndante wrote: |
Saying that specs are different than dimensions doesn't make sense. Porsche specs/VW specs/engineering specs are nothing but a series of dimensions,sizes,percentages,measurements, etc. |
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338946&highlight=
70 KG Coup
83 Westy Waterboxer |
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ach60 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2001 Posts: 4139 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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Ding -Ding-Ding, Winner - Winner Chicken Dinner
Westified wrote: |
I recently had a similar problem with my Westy. It was the shift lever part#251.711.221F . It is the plastic ball by the transmission. The ball cracked in half. I was having similar problems to what you describe. You need to crawl underneath and wiggle the shift lever back there by the transmission. If it wiggles a lot that is probably your problem. I also replaced the boot. Here is a link to what it looks like http://www.van-cafe.com/shift-lever-p1348. I hope this helps. Unfortunately Van-Cafe is out of stock on the OEM one. Good luck. |
Ahwahnee wrote: |
tencentlife wrote: |
...Look at the back end of your linkage, your problem is most likely to have started there. |
Thanks Chris - I just examined that area you suggested and finally found something that looks bad.
I could easily move the input lever through 3 & 4 and push it is and select 1st but when I had it firmly in 1st I was still able to move the operating shaft for & aft quite a bit:
Link
So that looks like a lot of slop in the connection. I think we're talking about this part?
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_________________ Good Luck
Al |
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Waldi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014 Posts: 1752 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:09 am Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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Well, my ball, lever and cup were/are ok and i had this problem 1-2.
Also 3 other vans.
And now ?
Sure this things have to be checked, but i am driving now over 1 year with a bowed "ear" and all is ok.
Edit:
Often the cup is worn out inside. |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:37 am Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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ach60 wrote: |
Ding -Ding-Ding, Winner - Winner Chicken Dinner
Westified wrote: |
I recently had a similar problem with my Westy. It was the shift lever part#251.711.221F . It is the plastic ball by the transmission. The ball cracked in half. I was having similar problems to what you describe. You need to crawl underneath and wiggle the shift lever back there by the transmission. If it wiggles a lot that is probably your problem. I also replaced the boot. Here is a link to what it looks like http://www.van-cafe.com/shift-lever-p1348. I hope this helps. Unfortunately Van-Cafe is out of stock on the OEM one. Good luck. |
Ahwahnee wrote: |
tencentlife wrote: |
...Look at the back end of your linkage, your problem is most likely to have started there. |
Thanks Chris - I just examined that area you suggested and finally found something that looks bad.
I could easily move the input lever through 3 & 4 and push it is and select 1st but when I had it firmly in 1st I was still able to move the operating shaft for & aft quite a bit:
Link
So that looks like a lot of slop in the connection. I think we're talking about this part?
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Ahem.... _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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Waldi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014 Posts: 1752 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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You will not believe it, but the plastic ball is much more resistand against grinding than the alu cup.
Once the rubber is off it goes relativly fast.
I dont know if you can buy the cup new, but it can be repaired.
Drill it out and insert a sleeve with the orignal inside diameter.
There are alot of componets from front shifting back to the box.
4 bearings, bowed, overused metal parts.
Everywhere a bit and a lot on the end.
But usually this 1-2 shifting problems dont come in a day. |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7472 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
tencentlife wrote: |
...Look at the back end of your linkage, your problem is most likely to have started there. |
Thanks Chris - I just examined that area you suggested and finally found something that looks bad.
I could easily move the input lever through 3 & 4 and push it is and select 1st but when I had it firmly in 1st I was still able to move the operating shaft for & aft quite a bit:
Link
So that looks like a lot of slop in the connection. I think we're talking about this part?
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That's the part that failed on my van when I lost the ability to shift into first or second. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois |
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Just a quick post-mortem on this problem now that I am home and have removed the offending part.
The operating arm on the trans is supposed to look like this:
Mine had broken and separated thus:
The shifting that did occur had considerable slop as it was occurring only because the tang on that arm was sort of engaging the cup.
The cup was ruined as a result:
I see that GoWesty makes their own replacement:
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=23516
And that VanCafe sells one that looks more like the original:
http://www.van-cafe.com/page_251_1883/shift-linkage-repair-kit
Any experience with the GoWesty style?
Any suggestions on getting that roll pin out?
BTW - the 'ears' look pretty good so I am thinking I will leave them be:
Thanks to all who pointed the way on this. We were able to drive another 3000 miles after the problem developed. |
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