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Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
...Look at the back end of your linkage, your problem is most likely to have started there.


Thanks Chris - I just examined that area you suggested and finally found something that looks bad.

I could easily move the input lever through 3 & 4 and push it is and select 1st but when I had it firmly in 1st I was still able to move the operating shaft for & aft quite a bit:


Link


So that looks like a lot of slop in the connection. I think we're talking about this part?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

That's the part, but rather than loosening on the input shaft, yours looks like the ball end has gone AWOL. Broken to bits I'd bet, which explains how suddenly this came on.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

Yes, a complete failure of that plastic ball accounts for both the symptoms and the suddenness.

The slop I show in the video is front-to-back but similar slop would occur side-to-side -- meaning a lot more side action would be required to get into 1st & 2nd (check) and the shift for 3-4 would be okay but very vague (double check).

I suppose the metal tang extends down inside that ball which is why I am still able to shift at all.

Thanks to all for advice and ideas they offered.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

When you go to change the ball, drill a tiny hole (~5/64") in the bottom of the cup so that you can use a needle to pump grease into the cup occasionally.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

Thanks - good idea. I've never been a 'lubed-for-life' kind of guy.
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70coupyel
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

Also check the wear on the inside of the cup. The wear inside the cup was the reason my shifting was not right. The first I got to play with this. I would say sticking my finger in there it at least ten thousands deep(0.010) I flipped it drove a few days and got a new part.
Also remember that the bracket in the back(by the cup/ball) gets mounted to the front of the van.
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ach60 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

Ding -Ding-Ding, Winner - Winner Chicken Dinner
Westified wrote:
I recently had a similar problem with my Westy. It was the shift lever part#251.711.221F . It is the plastic ball by the transmission. The ball cracked in half. I was having similar problems to what you describe. You need to crawl underneath and wiggle the shift lever back there by the transmission. If it wiggles a lot that is probably your problem. I also replaced the boot. Here is a link to what it looks like http://www.van-cafe.com/shift-lever-p1348. I hope this helps. Unfortunately Van-Cafe is out of stock on the OEM one. Good luck.



Ahwahnee wrote:
tencentlife wrote:
...Look at the back end of your linkage, your problem is most likely to have started there.


Thanks Chris - I just examined that area you suggested and finally found something that looks bad.

I could easily move the input lever through 3 & 4 and push it is and select 1st but when I had it firmly in 1st I was still able to move the operating shaft for & aft quite a bit:


Link


So that looks like a lot of slop in the connection. I think we're talking about this part?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Waldi
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

Well, my ball, lever and cup were/are ok and i had this problem 1-2.
Also 3 other vans.
And now ?

Sure this things have to be checked, but i am driving now over 1 year with a bowed "ear" and all is ok.

Edit:
Often the cup is worn out inside.
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levi
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

ach60 wrote:
Ding -Ding-Ding, Winner - Winner Chicken Dinner
Westified wrote:
I recently had a similar problem with my Westy. It was the shift lever part#251.711.221F . It is the plastic ball by the transmission. The ball cracked in half. I was having similar problems to what you describe. You need to crawl underneath and wiggle the shift lever back there by the transmission. If it wiggles a lot that is probably your problem. I also replaced the boot. Here is a link to what it looks like http://www.van-cafe.com/shift-lever-p1348. I hope this helps. Unfortunately Van-Cafe is out of stock on the OEM one. Good luck.



Ahwahnee wrote:
tencentlife wrote:
...Look at the back end of your linkage, your problem is most likely to have started there.


Thanks Chris - I just examined that area you suggested and finally found something that looks bad.

I could easily move the input lever through 3 & 4 and push it is and select 1st but when I had it firmly in 1st I was still able to move the operating shaft for & aft quite a bit:


Link


So that looks like a lot of slop in the connection. I think we're talking about this part?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ahem....
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Waldi
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

You will not believe it, but the plastic ball is much more resistand against grinding than the alu cup.
Once the rubber is off it goes relativly fast.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I dont know if you can buy the cup new, but it can be repaired.
Drill it out and insert a sleeve with the orignal inside diameter.

There are alot of componets from front shifting back to the box.
4 bearings, bowed, overused metal parts.
Everywhere a bit and a lot on the end.

But usually this 1-2 shifting problems dont come in a day.
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jimf909 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
tencentlife wrote:
...Look at the back end of your linkage, your problem is most likely to have started there.


Thanks Chris - I just examined that area you suggested and finally found something that looks bad.

I could easily move the input lever through 3 & 4 and push it is and select 1st but when I had it firmly in 1st I was still able to move the operating shaft for & aft quite a bit:


Link


So that looks like a lot of slop in the connection. I think we're talking about this part?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's the part that failed on my van when I lost the ability to shift into first or second.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem Shifting on the Road - Bloomington, Illinois Reply with quote

Just a quick post-mortem on this problem now that I am home and have removed the offending part.

The operating arm on the trans is supposed to look like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Mine had broken and separated thus:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The shifting that did occur had considerable slop as it was occurring only because the tang on that arm was sort of engaging the cup.

The cup was ruined as a result:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I see that GoWesty makes their own replacement:

http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=23516

And that VanCafe sells one that looks more like the original:

http://www.van-cafe.com/page_251_1883/shift-linkage-repair-kit

Any experience with the GoWesty style?

Any suggestions on getting that roll pin out?

BTW - the 'ears' look pretty good so I am thinking I will leave them be:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks to all who pointed the way on this. We were able to drive another 3000 miles after the problem developed.
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