1971 Bay - Me and the dog are building a bus!

[dolamike]

Thanks for all of the great info everyone! Really helpful!

Curious, who sells the fan shroud from VW of Mexico?

[wcfvw69]

[kooper271]

I thought of your thread yesterday when I was disconnecting my front and rear shift rods.

I was laying half under the bus and my Saint Bernard must have decided me laying down meant bed time. She crawled under the bus and laid on my arm

[dolamike]

It's kinda nice having a shop buddy, even if he's just asleep snoring over on his bed.

[dolamike]

Hey all, I'm in the process of dismantling my engine, figuring out all of the plumbing etc. I want to make sure that I fully understand everything, even possible mods made by the previous owner.

Below are two pics of the back of the engine block.

I'd love to understand what these two ports are. The bottom one seems to have a sheered off tube in it. The Right one seems to have a cover bolted over it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, sorry if this is a newbie question...

[dolamike]

One more question,

I've found a fairly complete set of original VW tin that looks pretty great for my application. The one small hickup is that the tin has been slightly modified for a full flow oil system at the rear. Seller says this should not effect the sealing of the engine bay. I'm thinking this should be OK, and if some day I install a full flow oil filter system I'll be ready to go.

Any thoughts on this mod to the tin? Any concerns I should have?

Thanks again for the help!

[rockerarm]

Hi and WELCOME. Those three threaded holes are for the rear engine mount, often referred to as a "moustache bar". The hole at the 6 0'clock position had sheared and is relatively easy to remove. There are a couple of methods to remove or if the case is going to a machine shop they can do it. That hole is 8mm x 1.25 but I don't have the length handy. The two holes at 3 and 9 o'clock are 10mm x 1.5 and again don't have the length handy.
The oval plate is for the oil fill tube on a type 3 engine. This case is a universal replacement case.
Regarding the rear breast piece, if it was just heated up and manipulated around the full flow return fitting then you should be good. Some folks will cut a small section from the tin to clear the fitting and there should be better ones available.
I would suggest to get the case tapped for the full flow return fitting and you can decide later on to use it or plug it.
Hope this helps, good luck, Bill. Good looking dog.

[dolamike]

We spent the day creating an engine dolly and continuing with the engine tear down.

I started with the push rod tubes, they were crushed from engine transport I suppose...? The push rods themselves do not seem bent. There is quite a bit of the seals that melted into the engine case, either that or the PO used silicon to seal them up. I pulled the heads, jugs, and pistons. There was some slight scoring on one of the cylinders, didn't look to bad to me. I really just couldn't install this engine in this bus without having had a look inside.

My thinking right now it to do a top end rebuild and get it running. Do some clean up and and on with the show. New main seal and push rod seals as was suggested earlier.

Right now I'm trying to decide between the AA pistons/ cylinders and the Cima/Mahle. This is definitely going to be a weekend car... any thoughts.

I also measured the pistons, case opening and head opening and they all seem stock 1600. Not sure how to measure the crank length... any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Tons of pics below...

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[rockerarm]

Hi. You can measure the "crank length" (ie: stroke) with a basic 6" steel ruler. Since you removed the P&C's you can easily remove the rings from a piston, install the piston onto the rod, slide cylinder onto studs and seat cylinder into the case. Measure distance at TDC from piston top to cylinder top, turn engine to BDC, measure distance of piston top to cylinder top, subtract the two measurements, and you have your stroke. You will probably find the measurement to be 69mm.

A few of things you might like to check that might help you decide whether you wish to further disassemble this engine.
1- Check the crank's end play. .006" is max spec but many engines out there have more than that. The main concern here is if loose the case gets beat up at the #1 bearing.
2- R&R the rods and inspect the bearings. Look at the manual to see their direction of installation. The rod bearings take a beating too.
3- R&R the oil pump. You can inspect the pumps gear that indexes the cam for wear and look at the manual for the other specs.
Check the torque of the 6 case nuts. At times the center get loose and when torqued the crank gets difficult to spin.
Look into the case opening and get a good eye on the cam and lifter surfaces.
Your last pic shows the gland nut that is all filled up in the dowel pin area with orange RTV. Not pretty and one has to wonder where else this sealant exists, though many of us routinely use it. Just not there.
This may not be what you wanted to hear but recognize this small displacement engine in a bus gets worked pretty hard and you have no idea what kinda work has been previously done. It is a lot easier to repair a worn engine vs a broken engine.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[dolamike]

Thanks for the info, definitely inspired a little more investigation into the engine. I will definitely measure the end play, I've been wanting a dial guage for a long time

Soooo....

I finally drained the oil out of the engine, found a bunch of orange RTV, not a good sign.

Decided to remove the engine studs, looks like the previous owner tried to install case savers, top left didn't have enough meat on it to hold. They threaded the stud further back into the engine case.

Anyone with experience with this? Does that look fixable? Larger case saver? Looks like it is already at the edge of the cylinder.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[rockerarm]

Hi. That "deep inserting" is there for a purpose. Its design is to give support in that area which has/had been known for cases to develop a crack. The crack would show behind the flywheel above the pressed in plug for the main oil gallery.
While your in this area look at the barrel (cylinder) seat surface. Run your fingernail across this area and see if you feel a lip. If so you this is another area that would justify you to split the case. A common machine shop procedure here is to "deck" the cylinder surfaces.
Also, you can check the torque/tightness of the 6 main bearing studs. At times they become loose. And at times when torqued the crank gets tight in the case. And there are two long 8mm studs at the front cam bearing. They normally don't cause any issues but I've seen some not hold a 14 ft/lb torque.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[dolamike]

It's bee awhile since I posted progress, below are some pics of the engine rebuild. I ended out going with Moresa Cylinders and Pistons. I found a good set of tin in the classifieds. Engine was gone through by a local machinist. Heads were not cracked so he freshened them up, replaced the vales and springs etc.

I have more photos to post, I need to catch up!

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71 Bay Window Bus
85 Westfalia

[alman72]

nice dog, nice bus, nice Honda. 71? cl350?

[Abscate]

Did you get squared away with the oil cooler?

Make sure you get the right oil cooler seals for a doghouse.
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.ssS!

[Tcash]

Oil cooler seals T2

[dolamike]

Yeah, I did a bunch of reading up on the seals before I installed the oil cooler, tons of great info on here about them... I think Busdaddy posted a really good link at the beginning of my thread.

Everything you ever wanted to know about oil cooler seals:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7909645#7909645

@alman72 Yes that's a 71 CB750 K1! I am in the process of restoring it. I also have a K0 and a K6. There is a great community around those bikes, similar to what the Samba has for VWs, really great.

http://forums.sohc4.net/
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71 Bay Window Bus
85 Westfalia

[dolamike]

Hey all, I'm trying to hunt down the size of some hardware for putting my engine bay together. It was apart when I got the bus so I do not have the originals.

Does anyone know what the proper fasteners are for the rear engine apron? Where there bolts with nuts from below?

Also need to find the correct size sheetmetal screws for the firewall tin that covers the gas tank. I assume they are metric... M4? M6?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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71 Bay Window Bus
85 Westfalia

[dolamike]

This is the sheetmetal screw size I used for the firewall that covers the gas tank, it worked well. Just for future reference.

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71 Bay Window Bus
85 Westfalia

[dolamike]

Did some work over the weekend, got the new gas tank installed.

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71 Bay Window Bus
85 Westfalia

[dolamike]

I also ran the fuel hose this weekend after much research.

I had originally bought the German Supply kit for my bus with the original cloth covered hose. After much reading I decided to go with the Gates Barracade in the 3/16 size for the hose. It was a tight fit but I did get it on and I'd personally rather have tighter that looser hose.

In the end I think it is a personal decision given the gas in your are and the bus you are working on. I did double clamp a couple of areas, particularly the metal line that runs through the firewall. It has no barb or bulged end for the clamp to hold onto. I also did the wire trick to keep the hose on the carb from falling out.

photos below.

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71 Bay Window Bus
85 Westfalia