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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:03 pm Post subject: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Last Tuesday I went for a nice hour long drive out to the river and back with my wife and kids. Mountain highway 55-65 MPH over two 3600' passes, outside temps in the mid 90s. No problems.
Wednesday morning I get in the Westy, pull down to the end of my driveway and within the next 20 yards the van won't go faster than 15-20 mph no matter how far I push the gas pedal (even down to the floor). ScanGauge shows Code P2138 (Throttle Position Sensor) and what appears to be an older stored code (maybe) of "PID00=" (no idea what this code is). Also on the Westy dashboard, two LED lights illuminated: The check engine light (always happens when the ScanGauge registers a code) and the yellow "Key Icon" light. Turned around and parked the van.
Today I get in the van to see what's up. Van starts right up, I look at the ScanGauge and clear the codes. No dash LED's illuminated. Van drives perfectly fine. That's great but the whole incident isn't inspiring confidence.
1. Any recommendations of what I should do from here?
2. What is the "Key Icon" with the yellow LED on my dash? I referenced my 1990 Owner's Manual and it isn't anywhere to be found and the funny thing is that it shows both the older dash (analog clock in place of tach) and newer dash (digital clock) in the same book (see photos below)!
Thanks Everyone!
_________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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I'm guessing the key icon refers to the immobilizer circuit _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10347 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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sounds like whoever did the swap took time to install a CEL at the Vanagon cluster. Maybe they installed the key light? (has to do with immobilizer for 1.8T as installed in original vehicle?)
AFAIK, the Vanagon did not come with a CEL light.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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greebly Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2009 Posts: 965 Location: Here and now
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Limp mode triggered by an improbable signal with the throttle position sensor. This would be a safety feature. Cut the ignition on without starting the van and allow the throttle to calibrate itself for a minute. It will establish both limits. Further troubleshooting will require a vag com. Repeated problems with this and I would do a throttle body adaptation using the vag com. It hopefully was an isolated incidence and the calibration will fix you up without further issues. |
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greebly Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2009 Posts: 965 Location: Here and now
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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The key symbol is more than likely your EPC light. It will energize whenever a safety related issue arises, such as limp mode. The CEL will trigger with most fault codes and emission related problems. Your pedal position sensor may be an issue if you have further problems, you need to check it. I think your conversion was done by SAH and you have the automatic? The potentiometer is located above the transmission on a bracket. |
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greebly Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2009 Posts: 965 Location: Here and now
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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E.P.C. (Electronic Power Control) |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Thanks all!
Greebly - I really appreciate the specifics especially the calibration trick! _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Update:
So the code (and limp mode) kept repeating. Took the Westy into the shop and...
1) They could not get the code/limp mode to activate despite driving the van for several days. Of course 😂.
2) They found heavy blue/green corrosion in the OBD port where my ScanGauge and their code reader plug into. They replaced and relocated the OBD port and told me to drive the Westy for a few days without the ScanGauge plugged into it to see if the code and/or limp mode activate. If not, they said plug the ScanGauge back in and see what happens.
Is it possible that the corrosion at the OBD port and ScanGauge was causing a bogus code / limp mode? _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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tgraham Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2015 Posts: 126 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Thanks for the update! I'm interested in what the root cause of this one is, so far all of my codes have been hose related. I did get my van back to SHA last winter and it's been stellar ever since. Good luck and keep us posted! _________________ 1990 Multivan/Weekender Auto 3.27 R&P SAH 1.8T |
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Vnyd Dog Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2015 Posts: 384 Location: Napa
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Your dash warning lights look like how Stephan's modified mine when they performed the swap. If you're like me, have you contacted them? They may be able to troubleshoot. _________________ '87 Westy 1.8T Conversion, Orignal Owner, European Delivery @ Westfalia factory in Weidenbrueck.
The Story:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713391&highlight=life |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Yes, I called SAH before I posted this thread. The new office guy was of no help whatsoever. I asked him for Stephan to please call me back. He never did. That's a first... and that being said, Stephan is a great mechanic and person with tons of skills and integrity. I get the feeling that he didn't receive the message. I will call back if the problem persists.
Back to the question above:
Is it possible that the corrosion at the OBD port and ScanGauge was causing a bogus code / limp mode? _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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casey79westfalia Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003 Posts: 1716 Location: Baltimore
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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ThankYouJerry wrote: |
Yes, I called SAH before I posted this thread. The new office guy was of no help whatsoever. I asked him for Stephan to please call me back. He never did. That's a first... and that being said, Stephan is a great mechanic and person with tons of skills and integrity. I get the feeling that he didn't receive the message. I will call back if the problem persists.
Back to the question above:
Is it possible that the corrosion at the OBD port and ScanGauge was causing a bogus code / limp mode? |
I would doubt it. Something is throwing the code and its before the scangauge and obd port as it threw the car in limp mode via the ecu. I would see if it comes back. Could be a loose connector at the pedal or just a pedal sensor in the pedal assembly going out of spec. Tough to say without it reoccurring. Let us know. _________________ 66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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JDub113 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2009 Posts: 758 Location: Reno
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Was an answer found here? _________________ 84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy |
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tgraham Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2015 Posts: 126 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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ThankyouJerry - did you ever come up with at root cause for this one?
I've got the same light show going on in mine.
I pulled in from work yesterday and stupidly thought to myself, "damn the van's been running really good lately" Right before I shut it off the yellow light appeared, and this morning when I started it I got the P2138 code. I shut it off and drove the truck to work this morning. I have't cleared codes or driven it yet, but remembered this thread so I thought I'd follow up.
_________________ 1990 Multivan/Weekender Auto 3.27 R&P SAH 1.8T |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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Tgraham - My local mechanic replaced my OBDII port inside the van which was badly corroded. This solved the problem for about a year... until recently when the problem returned. Stephan (SAH) said it’s usually a bad sensor toward the front of the engine. Mine looks to be covered in oil from a minor seeping valve cover. I’m taking my Westy back to SAH in the next 2 weeks for several upgrades and minor fixes. I will let you know what he says once he has the van. In the meantime, please let me know if you find the culprit before I do. _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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katzenjammer Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2005 Posts: 113 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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This is bizarrely coincidental, but I had the same problem today, and when I came to the forum to ask advice, I found this freshly resurrected thread. I had to limp for half a mile on 17 before I found a place to pull over. After calling my wife to say I might be late, I cleared the code (2138), started it up, and drove away with no further problems all day. (If it matters to anyone: my red check engine light did not come on, only the green/yellow light to the right.)
So, that's three SAH-converted vans all with automatic transmissions (and two in Santa Cruz!). I believe it might be a problem in the throttle-gizmo that sits on top of the transmission, but that's just a hunch, based on various bits of history and commonality between the vans (below). I could be way off, and to be clear, have no real expertise on the topic.
- All automatics, leads me to think it's something unique to autos. The throttle/transmission gizmo is unique to autos.
- Shortly after getting my van back from SAH I was driving in a Nevada rain storm and had a similar problem (definitely not identical: lost all engine power, not even limping, no codes). Stephan helped sort it out and the solution was to replace that throttle/transmission gizmo, with lots more silicon sealant this time to keep water out. No further problems until today (3 years later).
- Today I was driving in the rain at speed, just like I was in Nevada. Haven't done a lot of that given recent climate patterns.
- I got my van back from a transmission rebuild just about 160 miles ago, i.e. somebody's been in there recently "messing with" (removing and replacing) that throttle/transmission gizmo. Maybe it needs fresh sealant?
Does anyone else (with more expertise) think this points to the throttle/transmission gizmo? (Also, someone please at least tell me what it's called so I can sound slightly less like an idiot.)
Also, fellow sufferers: Was it raining when your van limped?
Dan _________________ 1990 Westy Multivan, Auto (3.08 R&P) 1.8T by SAH |
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tgraham Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2015 Posts: 126 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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I tend to agree that the rain has something to do with it and very interesting that we've got 3 automatic SAH conversions all with the same issue. Last week we had quite a bit of rain in Santa Cruz, and I was driving the van to work everyday. My conversion still has a couple of leaks so maybe that's also contributing to the issue. If anyone has a picture of where the sensor that ThankYouJerry refreenced above is located that would be super helpful. _________________ 1990 Multivan/Weekender Auto 3.27 R&P SAH 1.8T |
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katzenjammer Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2005 Posts: 113 Location: Santa Cruz
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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_________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Strange 1.8T behavior - ScanGauge Code P2138 |
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I can’t recall if when my van first gave this code if it was raining or not. But the most recent time a few weeks ago it was definitely not raining. I agree that it is interesting that all three of our vans are autos and having the same issue. I will mention it to SAH when my van gets there (1-2 weeks). _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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