Weird Start Problems

[xtracold]

So i'm now the proud owner of a 1974 Ghia Coupe.

This is the first Ghia I have owned and is considered by the wife as something of a mid-life crisis for me

Anyhow, the car is basically good as far as I can tell. I will be the 4th owner, previous owner knew a little of cars history but no real detail. It runs well (or did) and has minor rust to the body work but i'm sure more problems will reveal themselves in due course. It has a new paintjob amongst other things in its future. For now i'm focussing on a starting issue that occurred after I cleaned the car on Friday.

Prior to cleaning I had no starting issues. The choke is a bit wonky which was causing a high idle but given our temperatures here just now the car was starting well with the choke tied off closed. After cleaning I was no longer able to crank the engine, nothing other than something of a buzz from the dashboard. All gauges are dead too. Lights and flashers still work but absolutely no other activity on the gauges.

I believe the battery is good. It is pretty new and shows >12.5V on the multimeter.

There is an aftermarket stereo in the car, and I think what are aftermarket guages (see pic). This has presented a rats nest of wiring in the front of the car and I think I may have knocked a ground or something out of place when vaccuming the trunk area by all the wiring.

It's very strange behaviour, given that it cranks fine if I jump start from my truck and the fact that gauges are all dead. Basically I'm of the opinion that engine side everything is good, but at the front some wiring madness is preventing a signal getting to the starter.

I'm going to work through the wire harness tonight and remove the aftermarket radio to clean things up.

If anyone has any good ideas of what could be the root cause while I work through this it would be appreciated. I've seen some chat online with similar issues but no solutions were posted.

Jamie

[kingkarmann]

Whenever the problem you describe crops up the 1st thing I inspect are the battery cables. Pull and clean the battery connections, the starter connection and the negative batt cable connection. The negative (earth) should be attached to the gen/alt/dynamo stand. It could have been attached to the body. Just make sure everything is clean and tight. Perhaps something got knocked loose while you were cleaning.

There is a braided ground strap that makes ground from the frame to the transmission, Give those connections attention also.

Should look something like this:

Sharp Ghia
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[bhartwell59]

[xtracold]

I'll let you guys know what I find tonight. For you 1974 owners out there, can you comment on the likelihood that the cluster in the center with the oil pressure and battery guages is stock or aftermarket. I'm convinced it is aftermarket. There are also seat warmers installed which I don't believe are standard on the 74's? I'm really tempted to pull all these add-ons out and redo the wiring cleanly starting from a stock set up.

[67rustavenger]

The seat heat and gauges are not stock in a 74. At least from reviewing the 74 owners manual.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/74_kg.php
When you say "clean", do you mean a wash and wax? Or an engine clean. Or a trunk vacuum and wipe down?
I have knocked loose wires before and had similar issues. Of course the rat's nest from PO hacks are not helping your cause. Click the images below and they will enlarge for easier viewing.

Good Luck.
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[xtracold]

Minimal progress, didn't get under to check the grounding on the case but did get the aftermarket console out and disconnected the seat heaters.

The gauges are still wired in.

From that the behavior has changed a bit. The clock ticks again and the gauges move at key on. The flasher buzzes its relay so that might help towards finding the root cause. Here's a pic of the rats nest. I think its going to be one circuit at a time and probably end with a new harness.

[c21darrel]

[Les Milner]

I would look into possible issue with the seat belt interlock system. I believe there many threads talking about this. You can bypass this with a jumper wire under this relay.

[xtracold]

So latest is that I don't see any transmission ground. After some fun games finding the best way to jack the ghia up and get some stands under it so I could have a good look there was no ground strap that I could see.Lots of grime though, the whole powertrain is in need of a good clean before I can begun to think on looking at any of the leaks.

So with that scoped out i returned to the rats nest under the trunk. I had trickle charged for most of the evening. Without being very systematic I pushed some of the terminals again on the block that distributes the signals from the fuse block. Lo and behold she cranks and starts again!

Now I have it running I can go through each circuit amd clean things up at least on knowing that each change can be tested to see if it results in nostarts.

One thing I did notice is that I think the engine is a rebuild. Check out the number and firing order markings. Not stock from what I read. Maybe a Brazil engine.....

[sjbartnik]

[bhartwell59]

[trelms]

Your first pic of the trans shows the ground strap in the lower middle part. That's where mine is mounted also.
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'74 Ghia Vert SOLD

[xtracold]

[c21darrel]

Looks like a south of the border, Mexican alt stand. More pics of the motor...but take a step or two back first.
Congrats on getting her started.

[xtracold]

[c21darrel]

Thanks, lots of little things to do to clean up the engine bay. But that can wait til next week
Looks like it is originally a Olympic Blue car.

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[trelms]

Yeah!

If it were me I'd blow 4gs on a new motor and scrap it all. There's a lot in there
That shouldn't be on a 74. And your main or pushrod tube seals are spent.

Time for a 2liter or 1776 on dual cabs. Less time to replace than to get right.

That being said I've worked countless hours on my original AH engine and it still looks like a turd.

Lots of 74 geeks here so if you need more advice keep posting!
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'74 Ghia Vert SOLD

[xtracold]

The plan right now is to work out exactly what i've got myself into

I think i've paid a little over the odds for this one but they don't come up often locally and I figured it was time to jump in the deep end! The fact it is driveable and the body does not seem to have massive issues lured me in. A little impulsiveness too of course.

Plan is to keep it running through the summer then its off the road this winter. I'll do the basic mechanical things over summer and then plan what needs to be done over the winter.

I would love to get the body off the car in winter and get it stripped back to bare metal. Get what needs fixed all done ready for a respray. I can then think on what needs doing on the engine, chassis, floor etc.

No doubt ambitious but I would love to have it back together and running sweetly for next Spring.

Thanks all for your input...going to be fun times i'm sure.

[xtracold]

So I'm still working the wiring....

Trying to tidy up the radio, all aftermarket hacks that were made are now removed. But I can't find the wiring diagram for the original radio. Can anyone help? It might not even work but I would like to keep it, spotify and a Bluetooth speaker removes the need for aftermarket head unit anyway.

The black with the online fuse i assume is 12v power. the brown is probably ground given that is standard on the car. But what about blue and yellow/Brown?

Also, where would I expect to find the speaker connection?

thanks

JW.

[CiderGuy]

I have not read the entire thread, but you are using a multi meter ?
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Cars Currently Owned:

1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)

Timing is everything