5 Speed Bus Kit Install - SubaruGears transmission

[Crooked Designer]

Thanks for the replies. That metal piece looks like a winner. Sorry to hear about the RSFab people that are in limbo. That's not a good thing.

I'm probably going to either chalk it up as a fluke bad part and replace with another stock VW part or have my shop fabricate something.

In wondering "why is this plastic" it got me thinking that the reason is probably for simplicity while still limiting friction. This is clearly a part that is supposed to be in motion and from the looks of the bearings on the RSFab part it would need some way to freely rotate (bearings or bushing) if it was metal. Is this correct? if so, that would make fabrication a bit more complex either finding the right size bearings or some sort of bushing. I'm beyond my knowledge.

The Borgeson piece looks great, but would require modifying the ends of the rods and I'm not looking to take things apart further.
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'85 Westy full camper, Subaru 2.5L, 5 speed SubiGears + 5speedbus shifter kit

[20bugsys]

I hate to jump on old threads without reading every single post so forgive me if I missed something. I am at 20,000+ miles on my Subarugears in a Vanagon. There are a few discussions in this thread I'll chime in on.

1. The RSFab metal ujoint part. I have this and I just ordered the plastic VW part to replace it. There have been complaints that this metal version causes a lot of noise in the shifter linkage and mine is certainly buzzy. I'll try to plastic part to see if it helps. I believe there are some orings of some sort that accompany it?

2. I also have the RSFab shifter kit for the Subarugears trans and I regret buying it. I wish I had purchased David's kit and I tell everyone I talk to about this to avoid RSFab. My RSFab shift linkage fell apart twice with hardware failures in the front ball and cup location. Phone calls and emails and they simply ignored me. No response whatsoever.

3.Way back when I built the trans I was having trouble reaching 1st and second gear too. There are shims that go behind the reverse lockout mechanism on the side of the nosecone. I added some shims and the problem went away. Todd told me some of the nosecones had bad machine work at this location. The rev. lockout controls the precise location of the hockey stick end where it interfaces with the individual shift rails, not just the lockout for reverse.. A small adjustment to the lockout mechanism location makes a larger difference at the shift rail end.

4. I built my trans in the Fall of 2018 and drove it all over the US and Eastern Canada. It started making some strange noise last spring described best as a small hammer hitting a bell after shifting from 3rd to 4th gear. If I coasted in 4th, sometimes it would repeat this noise rapidly. As per advise from Todd, I ended up pulling the nosecone and measuring backlash from the end of the pinion shaft and it had opened up quite a lot. I adjusted it back to spec the best I could with the trans still in the van and then drove it for the rest of the year with no noise.

This winter, I opened it up and found extreme wear on the R/P as well as the teeth on 5th gear. After sending pictures to the well known transmission guys in this community, the consensus was bad gear oil or inadequate oil as if I had run it low. I was told explicitly that some people have had Todd's R/P sent out to be analyzed and found the parts to be as good or better than the standard gears and replacement parts available today in terms of metalurgy and surface hardness and that the cause of my issue was most likely not bad parts.

I have no good memory of a low situation or a leak, in fact I regularly drained the oil to inspect the oil and the magnet, refilling with the same oil through a funnel and a paint strainer. It is very likely I didn't put enough oil in it in the first place. The Subarugears web site says to put 4 liters of oil in, which is 4.23 quarts. In my mind, I think I did some bad math and thought 4 liters was less than 4 quarts. Maybe, not sure. There are 4 liters in it now and I hope to get more than 20,000 more miles out it.

I just thought I'd weigh in with my experience here.
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1960 | Beetle | Jade Green | 36hp OG Car
1969 | Beetle | Cherry Red | 1914cc
1984 | Vanagon Tin Top | Subaru EJ25, 5 Speed
1986 | Vanagon Syncro | Restoration to bone stock
@myescapepod
@crusty_syncro

[MarkWard]

The change in backlash was your clue I believe. In general on any hypoid ring and pinion, once the back lash is set, that’s it. Something has to wear or something has to loosen for back lash to increase.

I’m also slightly confused by your description. Generally you set pinion depth and backlash is set by moving the ring gear carrier on or off the pinion shaft. The end cover wouldn’t give you this access.

Disclaimer, I’m not familiar with the Subaru transaxle. My description would apply to all hypoid ring and pinion setups. The difference is the method for adjusting.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m considering one for my TDI next time it needs the $$$$$ shot.
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[20bugsys]

Yes,

The backlash is set by adjusting the differential carrier bearings. The Subaru transaxle has threaded rings on each side. Referred to as sundials. They have teeth on them. It's as simple as removing a locking tab and turning them in or out. Turned by one tooth is .05mm backlash adjustment. The locking tabs allow you to make 1/2 tooth adjustments.

The stock 5MT has the drain plug on the case half where the ring gear resides. The service manual says to insert a dial indicator through the drain hole to measure backlash perpendicular from the edge of a ring gear tooth.

Since the diff is flipped in a Subarugears trans, this procedure doesn't work.

The Subarugears kit includes a small metal arm that can be temporarily installed on the nose end of the pinion shaft, by removing the nut on the end and installing the indicator arm in place of the stock washers. Then you use your dial indicator from a small divot in the arm to measure the backlash here, by moving the pinion shaft instead of the ring gear.

If you search around here, you'll find all kinds of discussions about this procedure. Some people say it's inaccurate, that there is no way to measure the backlash this way, etc. All I can say is I have installed the pinion measurement arm from the kit on an unmodified 5MT and measured the backlash from it as well as from the ring gear through the drain hole and the numbers were dead nuts the same.

That said, Subarugears has a series of videos on instagram detailing the entire build process and setup. The method they now recommend, and I have had this conversation with Todd directly, is to set the preload on the diff bearings, then turn the adjusting dials until backlash gets to "0". By feel and sound. Then turn the ring gear side out 2.5 turns and the opposite side in 2.5 turns to reach .125mm backlash which is at the low end of the spec. Done.

I did this last time I rebuilt the trans but I verified it with the dial indicator anyway. I didn't trust that I found the true "0" point. If you find a video of an experienced pro setting the backlash on a Subaru transaxle, you will see them turning the sundials on each side simultaneously and doing everything by feel and counting the number of teeth. No measuring tools anywhere in sight.

[Crooked Designer]

Per my previous post here with the broken universal joint for the shifter rods.

A - very good to hear that replacing it with the OEM part was the way to go. I discussed with my shop and we concluded that this is probably engineered this way to be the weakest point in the system and easiest to fix again should something else go wrong or forces are somehow putting too much stress on the shifting.

B - we replaced it with the stock part and put the o-rings in and bolted it all back up. However, now there's some play in the joint and it makes a clunking noise. I'm trying to eliminate a new noise that rattles when I'm driving that wasn't there before this part broke.

My question is: Is there supposed to be any play in that joint? I took a short video that you can see here that shows how much play I'm talking about. It definitely makes louder noise on warmer days (Today it's low 40's F, so it is being relatively quiet)
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'85 Westy full camper, Subaru 2.5L, 5 speed SubiGears + 5speedbus shifter kit

[MarkWard]

The stock plastic joint when assembled with some grease and the O rings doesn't have noticeable play. It likely has measurable play though.

I don't think turning the sun dials simultaneously is critical. Its more important that they are turned equal amounts. Measuring the backlash at the pinion is fine if the tool has a specified mark that someone has equated to the back lash at the edge of the ring gear. So that sounds fine too.

I guess what I was implying was that once you found the backlash had changed from where you set it to originally prior to driving, something was wearing beyond what would be expected wear. Tightening backlash a second time without actually determining why it had changed, was not the best approach.

The same is true of shimming the end play on a WBX engine. If its set properly in the beginning and you find it has opened up, tightening the endplay without knowing why and addressing it, could actually aggravate the problem.

When I am dealing with used ring and pinions. I always measure back lash prior to disassembly. I then put it back to where it was. People that setup ring and pinions for a living, have the "eye" and "feel" for the rest of us, we need to count on tools and documentation.
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[Cdub!]

Can Dave Clymer or anyone else answer this question: in process of installing 5 speed Suby trans and 5 speed bus kit - will the gear shifter and associated components clear a 16inch CLK rim with a General Grabber tire stowed in stock spare location, while using RMW spare tire carrier and extension for locking of carrier.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

[D Clymer]

[Crooked Designer]

[Cdub!]

Dave / crooked designer. Thanks for the replies. 👍🏽👍🏽

[proofpudding]

If there is another thread I should read please point me in the right direction...

Looking for the information and parts necessary for installing the Subarugears transmission in a syncro.

It has developed a rear diff whine and rancho says not to drive it any further. This would be the 3rd or 4th rebuild so it's time to do something different on this van that sees lots of use and some towing.

Currently has a small car conversion kit with an ej25 in it and 930 axles.

Reading the subarugears stuff it looks like we will need a transmission of the appropriate vintage / part number, the Subaru gears reversed gear set, the appropriate axles / adaptors for the 930 stuff.

Once the transmission is built we will need the 5 speed bus install kit and maybe a new front transmission mount from t3technique.

Since it already has the small car bellhousing will the engine be able to stay in the same position?

Finally looks like an lsd will also be necessary to keep as much 4wd ability as possible. Still have the front locker for getting unstuck.

Let me know and thanks for your help.
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1988 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg

[Cdub!]

you shouldnt need new trans mount if you're going to purchase the 5 speed bus kit. That is part of the kit Dave sells.

[shagginwagon83]

Wouldn't you ditch the Small car bellhousing as the trans is built to mate with your engine.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[proofpudding]

Yes, the bell housing will be replaced. I was reading that people with adaptor plates have to move the engine and re drill the engine supports a few inches away with the new transmission. Hoping to not have to do that because there isn’t that much space on the frame rails to be drilling lots of new holes. Not a big deal though either way.

Any other major pieces I am missing? Trying to hunt down a transmission now and then hoping to catch mr clymer and or Todd on the phone before putting in the order.

Any favourite Subaru transmissions i should be looking out for?
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1988 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg

[11BC2]

[shagginwagon83]

I am due for a trans rebuild/upgrade.

Subaru EJ22E - so around 135hp.

LSD / slip diff is the plan.

Rebuild the stock trans that has 150k miles on it - or,

Upgrade to 5 speed SubaruGears.

I do have a RJES bellhousing and running nearly a complete clutch setup. I would need to get an input shaft from RJES and I believe I would be able to run a complete Subaru clutch setup.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[dustibus]

I built my subarugears trans in about 2016. I used a ty755 from a 2002 WRX and got the 4.44 gears with the subarugears transmission mount(zinc plated, some on here I see are painted black), also the stub axles and 100mm flanges. I have a quaife limited slip as well.

I previously had the Rocky Mountain Subaru conversion with adapter plate to VW trans. I DID NOT have to move my engine location at all when installing my subarugears trans, I wondered this, but after installing everything to my surprise everything lined up perfectly with vw trans/bushing mount, subarugears trans mount, and RMW engine mount. (Also have yellow power flex bushing)

Some of you have some whine noise on deceleration/acceleration. I have SLIGHT whine on decel only over 65 mph(5th gear), once under that speed it STOPS, asked Todd at subarugears and he said run it, “that’s just the harmonics of the trans”. I had the trans apart one time (leaky vent) and everything looked great, adjustments all checked out good, perfect!! It’s been doing that for years now and fluid looks fine everytime!!

I installed my breather vent here

And It doesn’t seem to leak AT ALL(even tho it may look like it’s leaking it’s not, the roads in Death Valley and Big bend are DUSTY). I never have driveway drips or notice low fluid. This is just a 1/8npt stainless “vent” I got off McMaster Carr (4456K11), I did find a plastic “cap” that fit snug over the vent, figured the cap was round so air could pass through the round vs hex fit. Seems to be holding up good!! (Would hold up fine without vent too, just stuck it on there because)

I also made a custom slave cylinder mount and adapted the line to fit the stock 10mm banjo fitting. I used an MG slave which has 1 1/4”//32mm piston. Which corrects the badly matched Subaru slave and stock VW master cyl. It’s SO much easier to drive, much better petal feel, and more control over the clutch. I thought about making some of these, my trans uses the “pull clutch” style.

https://youtu.be/ciFEusBwBDk

I went with turbo trans just because I figured it would be stronger, stronger clutch..exc. Trans Is designed for ~235hp and I have maybe ~135hp. I bought it used off eBay as a jdm transmission, same with my engine, ej20 non turbo. I get average 24mpg, sometimes 25-26 sometimes 22-23, just all depends. I really watch my speed/throttle and cruise average maybe 65.

I did buy the rsfab shifter. I was ON this guy for like 8 months and finally got it in the mail… If I didn’t have access to a machine shop and know how to run machines, it would have never worked. Yeah, I don’t recommend him…

The Subaru transmission and engine combo are GREAT!! Almost like they were designed for each other ⚙️⚙️ 🏁

[proofpudding]

Does it matter where you order the parts from? Does it matter if you order from subiworks or directly from subarugears? The subarugears USA phone number goes to the subiworks shop in California.

Sounds like both places have parts a bit back ordered. Not sure it matter much. Subarugears says free world wide shipping with tax etc included and the website seems a bit slicker so that may be my choice unless I can sort out how to order from subiworks.

Does anyone know if the syncro kit includes the syncro transmission “subamount or is that a separate add on for $300?
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1988 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg

[xclemjustinx]

I'm planning on installing a 2001 4eat auto trans into a 1994 ej22 motor. Does anyone have the diagrams for the wiring? Thanks.

[rlevans]

How do you purchase the 5 Speed Bus shifter setup and mounts?
Tried to look for a website/ classifieds…