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cellobus1 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 284 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:21 am Post subject: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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Hi, returning from a recent camping trip, about a 3-hour drive, I found my bus unable to make it up hills on the interstate in 4th gear, although it ran fine on the way out. I had a roof rack and a Folbot on top of that, but I have done that before. It also is smoking constantly as opposed to just occasionally before. It's a GD motor w/stock FI. The odometer read 14,000 when I bought it in 1988. (14K in 12 years? I really doubt that). It now has almost 92K. the #2 spark plug is very oily, but the other three looked ok. That particular plug came out really hard last tune-up, and when I put the current plug back in, it wouldn't tighten. (maybe unrelated). Have I broken a ring?
I have a GE motor in the basement that I bought for parts, (it has paid for itself a couple times) but it lacks exhaust manifolds. It's also of unknown internal condition, but it had oil in it when I bought it and it turns. I'm pretty sure it has hydraulic lifters. If I miraculously find the right manifolds, will they bolt up to my current exhaust (which is loud but basically stock)? I would transfer the FI from the GD.
Thanks _________________ 1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive |
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chabanais Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2002 Posts: 4866
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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What do you mean by:
"It also is smoking constantly as opposed to just occasionally before."
Under what conditions was it smoking before? _________________ "I spud therefore I yam." |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:21 am Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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All that and can you say if it has the thermostat flaps installed? I've seen engines with out them scuff just one or 2 pistons. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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cellobus1 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 284 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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I've put 80,00 dirty but happy miles on this car in 28 years, the last ~40,000 have been without the bellows. It was dirty when I bought it 1988 and like I said, who knows how many actual miles it had on it then- every SINGLE push rod tube was leaking when I put it on the road. In spite of all this it was running as strong as it ever has when this started. Now I have pieces of spark plug threads in the combustion chamber, I don't think a compression test is a smart thing to do at this time. I'm not asking how to repair the motor. My question was really about whether the GD exhaust will work with the GE engine, sorry for the misleading subject line. After reading horror stories about hydraulic lifters, and as infrequently as I drive it, I feel like my best path is to stick with solids, rebuild the GD if possible and use the bellows from the GE motor if I can. _________________ 1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive |
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WhirledTraveller Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2008 Posts: 1399 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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GD and GE codes on the case don't tell you much. Most of these motors have been rebuilt, perhaps several times, and parts mixed and matched. To tell whether you have oval or square exhaust ports, you have to physically look at them. To tell whether you have solid or hydraulic lifters, you have to physically look at them. GE Code motor *should* have hydraulic lifters, but the exhaust ports changed between '78 and '79. '78 should be oval, '79 square. _________________ 1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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you've most likely badly scuffed or burned thru a piston. It doesn't take much on an air cooled bus motor - just a little too much timing advance, and throttle combined. If the engine gave you 80,000 fun miles it did its job and is time for a rebuild. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2199 Location: seattle
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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Dodging the hydro lifters isn't a bad idea.
At just 2,933 miles per year, your engine isn't going to
enjoy the typical hydro lifter "bleed down" clatter at start up.
Solid lifter type IVs seem to fare better than hydraulics,
year after year, season after season. |
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cellobus1 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 284 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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Ok, yes. I indeed have a very burned #2 piston. It didn't have a hole in it. the head above it looks like fools gold. Who knows what else is amiss with it.
Anyway, the GE engine I have is super clean inside (but has a stripped spark plug hole) and does have hydraulic lifters (boo), which I suppose I could live with if it ends up running at all. It also has this funky idler arm attached to the bottom rear of the case with super long case bolts, pictured below. (PTO? AC?)
I'm still wondering whether the GD heater boxes will bolt up to GE exhaust manifolds (which unfortunately didn't come with the GE motor). According to Muir's tally, the engine number identifies it as a 1978. Also wondering if engine tin shapes changed from GD to GE.
One more thing, are the "engine mounts" attached to the engine carrier on a GD/'76 and to the crankcase on a GE/'78? Each of the two engines has a different set-up.
_________________ 1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:38 am Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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What colour was the smoke?How much,if any,oil did you have to add to it?May be just an over fueling injector.Blue smoke=oil,black smoke= fuel.
This is off a engine with GE type heads 79 model year,notice where it bolts to the head is flat,refered to as square port.There is a thread on here,that say you can make it fit.
_________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:37 am Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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How about a picture of the exhaust ports on your GE engine. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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cellobus1 wrote: |
Also wondering if engine tin shapes changed from GD to GE. |
No, aside from the bleed air nipple for the canister purge they are the same.
cellobus1 wrote: |
One more thing, are the "engine mounts" attached to the engine carrier on a GD/'76 and to the crankcase on a GE/'78? Each of the two engines has a different set-up. |
Mounts are the same for all type 4 bay's, sure you don't have a Vanagon motor in the mix somewhere?
Lots more pics required. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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Quote: |
One more thing, are the "engine mounts" attached to the engine carrier on a GD/'76 and to the crankcase on a GE/'78? Each of the two engines has a different set-up. |
busdaddy wrote: |
Mounts are the same for all type 4 bay's, sure you don't have a Vanagon motor in the mix somewhere? |
I am guessing he is just seeing failed engine mounts. On one engine they failed on the top and on the other they failed on the bottom.
Quote: |
Lots more pics required. |
2x, good photos help in getting good answers.
.
Last edited by Wildthings on Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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otiswesty Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 1730 Location: Portland
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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cellobus1 wrote: |
It also has this funky idler arm attached to the bottom rear of the case with super long case bolts, pictured below. (PTO? AC?)
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Maybe that is an AC bracket for a York compresor _________________ 1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
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cellobus1 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 284 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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Wow, I didn't get notified of all these responses somehow! I have sort of resigned myself to going the Bus Depot rebuilt motor route, but maybe it would be worth it to post pics of the damage to see if there's anything that can be done. I haven't removed the 3-4 head to inspect as I'd seen enough on the 1-2 side to want to just reject it and start over.
_________________ 1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive |
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alman72 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 2573 Location: MICHIGAN
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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lil-jinx wrote: |
What colour was the smoke?How much,if any,oil did you have to add to it?May be just an over fueling injector.Blue smoke=oil,black smoke= fuel.
This is off a engine with GE type heads 79 model year,notice where it bolts to the head is flat,refered to as square port.There is a thread on here,that say you can make it fit.
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nice looking htf heat exchangers!!!! |
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kevin77westy Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2004 Posts: 795 Location: Ocean Springs, MS
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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Damn! We gotta see more pics of the carnage. |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6980 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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Personally I would not buy a longblock from BD. But, I do know a guy who bought a Vanagon engine from them and he's had no problems with it. He's got like 15k on it, so that's good. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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cellobus1 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 284 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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I'm deducing from other pics I've seen that the scuffing on the fan housing (and on the front of the fan itself) signifies that the crank end play was too much.
_________________ 1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: GD motor suddenly smoking |
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cellobus1 wrote: |
I'm deducing from other pics I've seen that the scuffing on the fan housing (and on the front of the fan itself) signifies that the crank end play was too much.
[pic] |
Could be, but I've also seen fan shrouds get loose from A/C compressors adding weight and leverage. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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