Author |
Message |
TDI_VT Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:21 am Post subject: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
Hi all,
I'm thinking I have a cooling problem. I got the van all put back together, new head gasket, head resurfaced, and I'm seeing really high Temps with a cold rad. I drove around a bit today with my computer watching the temp and they got up to 93.9 C. The rad is cold, but I have heat. Drove for maybe 15-20 mins total.
When bleeding the air out of the system, I followed the procedure exactly, and I get coolant out of the bleeder. However, some strange stuff happens, like after I see coolant come out of the bleeder, drive for a bit, then stop and open it, I get nothing coming out.
When I look at my coolant tank, the flow seems weak. The water pump was replaced. Could I have blockage some where or do I still have a stubborn air pocket?any tips to get that out if so...
Could I have screwed up the gasket install and have a leak? There doesn't appear to be coolant in oil or vice versa... Sometimes I see air in the coolant tank (realllllllly tiny bubbles).
Any thoughts are appreciated!
Collin[/i] _________________ 1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Tdi cooling question |
|
|
Did you replace the thermostat? _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDI_VT Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Tdi cooling question |
|
|
Once upon a time, yes. I suppose it could be seized.... I had to run water through the van in an emergency once. _________________ 1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
HBB Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2014 Posts: 156
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Tdi cooling question |
|
|
To clarify, you are seeing high coolant temps in VCDS or some similar program that pulls data from the ECU via the OBD port?
As for bleeding, I have limited experience with the AHU, but for the most part the TDI engines seem to be essentially self-bleeding when it comes to purging air out of the cooling system. When I've had the cooling system open for some reason, I normally just top off the expansion tank and drive around long enough for the thermostat to open and then let the engine cool somewhat. On that initial warm up run, the temps will rise pretty fast once the thermostat opens--it will get up to 99 C easily. I generally circle the neighborhood when doing this so I can just pull into the driveway and shut down once temps start climbing.I will top off the coolant again after the engine has cooled, and that's normally all that is required.
So, I would suggest you try running the engine through a few heating and cooling cycles rather than messing around with manual bleeding. That is an easy and simple approach, and if you are careful to keep an eye on temperatures and coolant level, there is little risk of damage.
Also, I am no expert, but I think it would be unusual for the thermostat to be be stuck closed. Normally when they fail, it seems like they are stuck open. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
Did you keep track of the amount of coolant you used? I recall it takes about 3 gallons. For the thermostat to open, it is best if you have coolant on both sides of the thermostat. Personally I drill an 1/8 hole in the thermostat, so the coolant level equalizes. You can accomplish the same thing, by filling the engine block through the top cylinder head hose. This way you are sure to have enough coolant in the engine to heat up and cause the thermostat to open for the first time. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDI_VT Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
Gotcha, thanks Mark. I think I saw a post before when you advised someone else to do that and I already did haha. But I'll fil from the upper hose on the engine block and we'll see what happens.
What should the flow rate look like in the coolant bottle. Right now it seems weak... _________________ 1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDI_VT Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
Also, I'm reading the coolant temp through vcds. _________________ 1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
With the thermostat open, the majority of the flow should be through the radiator, not the expansion tank. I recall the tank inlet hose should have a restrictor. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6316 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDI_VT Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
The van has the vanagon diesel hose set _________________ 1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDI_VT Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
https://youtu.be/eh6vlfPmy7Y
That vid shows my confusion over a hot and cold hose. Same length of hose, six inches apart.
https://youtu.be/H8BoMOUwNzQ
That one shows a bit off air coming out of the coolant up hose in the coolant tank.
I have bled the system and have coolant out of the rad bleeder. Tonight I let it idle up to about 68 C, was not getting heat _________________ 1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
|
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
If the system has been bled adequately then the bubbles in the expansion tank are a clear indication of combustion gases entering the coolant.
140°F isn't hot enough to open the thermostat. You will not get flow through the radiator until the thermostat opens. The thermostat will not even start to open until ~190°F. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDI_VT Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
As usual.... I think Andrew is right. I'm not getting any flow at all from the bleeder, or heat, and I'm seeing the coolant boil over. Do these systems plug up easily if run with water? _________________ 1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
No it should not "plug up" with only water. I would disconnect both main hoses that run forward and connect a garden hose to either hose. Run water through one and it should flow easily back and out the other one.
You are missing something. It should not be this problematic to solve. Its a fairly straight forward system. The thermostat performs two functions. Cold it opens the coolant bypass to allow the engine to come to temperature quickly. The heater circuit is also plumbed into the bypass circuit. When the thermostat gets to operating temp, it opens to allow flow to the radiator and closes the bypass. Did you install the thermostat backwards? Did you mix up the main coolant pipes? It is easy to reverse them on an engine conversion.
I am running a stock thermostat in my ALH TDI. It takes many miles for the engine to come to temperature. To hit operating temp of 190F, it needs to be a hot day and I need to be pushing down the interstate at 70 mph. The TDI is a very heat efficient engine and the stock vanagon cooling system is more than adequate to keep up with the generated BTU's. My radiator fan comes on maybe 3 or 4 times on a cross country trip. Hang in there, you'll get it solved. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDI_VT Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
At the risk of feeling foolish...... Which side does the "spring" of the thermostat go? Into the plastic fitting.... Or into the water pump body....? _________________ 1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
|
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
The pump body _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6316 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
TDI_VT wrote: |
At the risk of feeling foolish...... Which side does the "spring" of the thermostat go? Into the plastic fitting.... Or into the water pump body....? |
You cannot install it the wrong way, I think it is spring towards pump _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
I have uploaded a parts diagram so that you can ask specific questions using the coolant hose numbers. Then we might be able to better help you. mark
_________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
HBB Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2014 Posts: 156
|
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TDI cooling question |
|
|
TDI_VT wrote: |
As usual.... I think Andrew is right. I'm not getting any flow at all from the bleeder, or heat, and I'm seeing the coolant boil over. Do these systems plug up easily if run with water? |
Mixing coolant types can create a sludge that is problematic. VW would have called for G11 in the AHU, which is blue-green.
Your coolant appears pink, which is consistent with the newer G12 variants. It's been a while since I've looked at this, but I think that G12 is not backwards compatible with G11. You want to use the G12+ if you are adding to a system that contains G11.
I don't think it really matters whether you run G11 or G12, provided you don't mix them. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|