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SurfaceRust
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 160
Location: Los Angeles
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 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:24 pm Post subject: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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I bought a 77 bus recently and after having it for about a week the shifting has become extremely tough. When it is off and cold it is much much easier to shift. I am able to get it into gear when running but it have to use way too much force. I don't think it's the clutch because if i have it in gear i can depress the clutch pedal and rev the engine. Do you guys have any thoughts?
Last edited by SurfaceRust on Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kkjellquist
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2013
Posts: 752
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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If you have a Bentley manual you can read the procedure to make sure the shifter is properly adjusted. After that you can start looking at replacing the bushings if needed. Make sure your transmission fluid is properly topped off and you might want to change it if you don't know the history.
My bus shifts well, but not by modern standards. Always remember the vehicle is almost 40 years old. It's never going to shift like 2016 vehicle...or even a 2006 vehicle!
_________________
1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)
Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195
Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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check the gear fluid level. Most likely it is the pilot bearing. Also check the bolts holding the engine and trans together.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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| 2x on the pilot bearing, they are way undersized and are known for failing frequently. Once you have the engine and tranny split you are going to want to check that the slinger in the bellhousing of the tranny has not come loose. |
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Amskeptic
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Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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| SurfaceRust wrote: |
| I bought a 77 bus recently and after having it for about a week the shifting has become extremely tough. When it is off and cold it is much much easier to shift. I am able to get it into gear when running but it have to use way too much force. I don't think it's the clutch because if i have it in gear i can depress the clutch pedal and rev the engine. Do you guys have any thoughts? |
Do NOT drive it until you have this one fixed.
It is very much the clutch whether or not you can rev it freely in a gear with the pedal depressed, the little brass synchronizers (about the size of a plastic coffee cup lid) can get killed if you start getting tough on the gear shifter.
What is the free play at the top of the pedal travel (in inches)?
Colin
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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Shifter Parts ID
First thing to inspect is the shift coupler and front shift rod bushing.
Good luck
Tcash |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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| Tcash wrote: |
Shifter Parts ID
First thing to inspect is the shift coupler and front shift rod bushing.
Good luck
Tcash |
I am assuming he does not get a release as he states:
"When it is off and cold it is much much easier to shift."
Colin
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SurfaceRust
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 160
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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The clutch can almost fully depress without catching. It only catches with about 1-2 inches left. Its not free play in the clutch though.. its still hard to press down all the way through.
Also when running i can shift into 3rd and 4th fine, its just 1st and 2nd which are tough. If its in reverse I can get it into first easier. if its in neutral i cant get 1st at all. if im coming from 1st i can get 2nd, but if im coming from 3rd i cant get 2nd
Ill change out the gear oil
I was thinking it could be some of the bushings in the linkage
Ill look into the pilot bearing |
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SurfaceRust
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 160
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| SurfaceRust wrote: |
| I bought a 77 bus recently and after having it for about a week the shifting has become extremely tough. When it is off and cold it is much much easier to shift. I am able to get it into gear when running but it have to use way too much force. I don't think it's the clutch because if i have it in gear i can depress the clutch pedal and rev the engine. Do you guys have any thoughts? |
Do NOT drive it until you have this one fixed.
It is very much the clutch whether or not you can rev it freely in a gear with the pedal depressed, the little brass synchronizers (about the size of a plastic coffee cup lid) can get killed if you start getting tough on the gear shifter.
What is the free play at the top of the pedal travel (in inches)?
Colin |
WINNER...
It was in fact the clutch. I just had to tighten the wingnut on the cable and now its good to go. Not before buying a new bushing kit for the linkage though. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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| SurfaceRust wrote: |
WINNER...
It was in fact the clutch. I just had to tighten the wingnut on the cable and now its good to go. Not before buying a new bushing kit for the linkage though. |
If your clutch adjustment change all at once the cable is probably beginning to fray or the pin in the front is wearing through. I would suggest that if you don't want to get stuck out on the road within the next few hundred miles you change out the cable and pin while verifying that the front lever arm isn't hogged out to badly. You might buy a complete kit that included the bowden tube and change that out as well. |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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^^^We loosen the wingnut as the clutch disc wear out. As posted if you had to tighten it, you will want to check the cable and clutch cable lever.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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| I carry very few parts with me when I travel as I try to keep things in good enough shape that they will not let me down without giving lots of notice. I do carry both a spare throttle cable and a spare clutch cable. They are both cheap, light in weight and don't take up much room. They just get stashed in with the spare tire. |
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SurfaceRust
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 160
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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| Well I installed my shift linkage bushing kit today. it shifts even more smooth now, but just as a precaution I have ordered 2 Clutch cable kits and an accel cable. i also ordered the clutch pin thing, because it was cheap. Thanks for the advice. Would rather have the parts for if/when it does break. |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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Be certain the clutch lever (pedal end) is oriented correctly. Otherwise it will break the cable in short order near the pedal end. Also when tightening the wing nut end use vice grips to hold the cable in place.
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1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
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NoBudgetVWGarage
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2008
Posts: 755
Location: Quartz Hill,CA
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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In the middle of changing my bushings as well. My shifting is sloppy as all hell!
I just pulled my shift rod but all my bushing look fine. Any ideas? Working on a 72.
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1968 Ghia
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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| NoBudgetVWGarage wrote: |
In the middle of changing my bushings as well. My shifting is sloppy as all hell!
I just pulled my shift rod but all my bushing look fine. Any ideas? Working on a 72. |
While you have the bushing tube out clean it very well inside. Once certain the bushings are good give the a shot of Teflon spray lubricant. Spray the interior of the tube as well. See if you can source the boots that also go over each end of the tube when putting everything back together.
Look for slop in the shifter at the stick end or the trans coupler end.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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ivwshane
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 1920
Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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| kkjellquist wrote: |
If you have a Bentley manual you can read the procedure to make sure the shifter is properly adjusted. After that you can start looking at replacing the bushings if needed. Make sure your transmission fluid is properly topped off and you might want to change it if you don't know the history.
My bus shifts well, but not by modern standards. Always remember the vehicle is almost 40 years old. It's never going to shift like 2016 vehicle...or even a 2006 vehicle! |
Can you elaborate on that? The only bus I have ever driven is my own so I have no idea what "normal" is on a bus.
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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus |
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| ivwshane wrote: |
| kkjellquist wrote: |
If you have a Bentley manual you can read the procedure to make sure the shifter is properly adjusted. After that you can start looking at replacing the bushings if needed. Make sure your transmission fluid is properly topped off and you might want to change it if you don't know the history.
My bus shifts well, but not by modern standards. Always remember the vehicle is almost 40 years old. It's never going to shift like 2016 vehicle...or even a 2006 vehicle! |
Can you elaborate on that? The only bus I have ever driven is my own so I have no idea what "normal" is on a bus. |
I believe he is referring to the overall feel of the stick when shifting. It is notably different in terms of comparison to modern manual shift vehicle. The shift stroke is longer and not as stiff (side play) on a bus.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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If you can't accurately shift through the four forward gears without the base of your hand leaving your knee, you can make some improvements in your shift mechanism.
Robbie
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anthonyhernandez99
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2016
Posts: 19
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Tough shifting 77 Bus [Fixed] |
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I'm pretty sure this thread describes my issue pretty well.
I'm not able to get at the wingnut at the moment, but I had my lady press on the clutch and release so I can get an idea of how much movement I'm getting.
Does this look normal? Or should I get after that wingnut?
https://youtu.be/Jy3jJDV_kUY
Thanks in advance! |
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