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ClareSutton
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Sarnia Ontario
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 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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I have reviewed this topic in the Samba forum and have tried everything
- 3/4 inch drive and bar with extension on a 46mm socket
- heat
- sprayed WD-40 every couple of hours from 4 days before trying
- heating and waxing the threads (from GOOGLE)
I am 230lbs and have jumped on a 3 foot long extension after heating with two torches and have also used my impact gun to no avail. I am trying to remove the hubs to replace the brake backing plates for safety check. Anybody have any other ideas???
Thanks. |
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clift_d
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2012
Posts: 265
Location: Hackney innit, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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Flogging wrench?
OR
Mark the hub nuts then take your van and 46mm socket to a nearby garage, give them a bit of beer money and get them to crack the nuts off with a big impact gun, then tighten them up again to the marks, stick in a new split pin and drive home?
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1988 LHD T25 1.6TD Westfalia Club Joker syncro |
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ClareSutton
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Sarnia Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| Thanks Clift_D but I am preparing the van for safety check so it is not licensed yet so I cant take it to a garage. Guess I'll just keep heating it but I'm not too hopeful. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Order two new nuts.
Dave |
Are you telling him to be bold? |
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greebly
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2009
Posts: 966
Location: Here and now
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| What kind of heat? A propane torch? TK would have said that you need acetylene and get it cherry red. Other's have suggested bringing it by a truck shop with big boy tools, a 1" impact with mucho air behind it. let them loosen it, give them a beer, tighten enough to get home. |
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ClareSutton
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Sarnia Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| I have a dremel and might just use it. I would have to tow it to a truck shop because it is not licensed yet. I am using two propane torches, one on each side of the nut. I have removed many axle nuts but have never witnessed anything close to this. Thanks for tips. |
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greebly
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2009
Posts: 966
Location: Here and now
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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You are talking to someone that just spent a couple of hours over 3 days removing an armrest bracket. Non destructive R&R on a 30 year old vehicle requires creativity and according to Terry Kay abundant Heat. 
I never see freezing parts mentioned here though. A can of freeze it or even contact cleaner when used in conjunction with heat is the bomb. Heat the nut, freeze the spline. |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| An oxy fuel torch is your friend. No need to heat the whole thing up cherry red, just a dot on two faces of the nut. It WILL come right off. |
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61Scout
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2011
Posts: 1297
Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| ClareSutton wrote: |
| I have a dremel and might just use it. I would have to tow it to a truck shop because it is not licensed yet. I am using two propane torches, one on each side of the nut. I have removed many axle nuts but have never witnessed anything close to this. Thanks for tips. |
The slug wrench shown here may help: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight= With it, the 4 bolts that hold the bearing housing to the trailing arm could be removed. Of course, the axle would have to be unbolted, so too would the parking brake cable and hydraulic line need to be disconnected. But this tool will allow the entire bearing housing along with the brake hardware to be taken down to a machine shop or truck shop who could then deal with the big nut.
That said, taking a dremel and scoring then cracking the nut would seem to be the easiest option. Just be careful not to go too deep with those cutting wheels.
-Kevin
_________________
1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=
-Nec Spe, Nec Metu |
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wesitarz
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1490
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| I used a 7 foot long steel pipe extension on a 3/4 inch ratchet with socket.Worked easy on one but not the other. Took it to a VW shop where he used an air impact and acetyline torch,still it took several tries and 40 minutes. |
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timichango
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2012
Posts: 858
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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I'd wager a manual impact driver's probably what you want there, if you can't get it to a pneumatic one (or get a pneumatic one to the van...).
https://www.powertoolexpert.com/how-to-use-a-manual-impact-driver-utimate-guide/
That said, I'd be looking to rent or borrow a compressor and impact gun, personally, and seeing if that did the trick.
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Vroomhilde-San: Our 1991 Silver Vanagon Westy automatic + Subie EJ25 |
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timichango
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2012
Posts: 858
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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Weird idea — anyone have any thoughts on using a floor jack to apply leverage under a wrench to get that sucker to turn?
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Vroomhilde-San: Our 1991 Silver Vanagon Westy automatic + Subie EJ25 |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| timichango wrote: |
| Weird idea — anyone have any thoughts on using a floor jack to apply leverage under a wrench to get that sucker to turn? |
Lifting on the wrench lifts the wheel off the ground, whereas you need the wheel to press onto the ground (to not rotate).
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2321
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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Sorry, a manual impact driver will be completely useless against an axle nut done up to the spec. of 360 lb-ft, let alone this one which is probably far tighter than that.
I'd be getting the Dremel out. 
_________________
Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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timichango
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2012
Posts: 858
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Go buy that dremel and a pack of metal cutting wheels.
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Eeeeehhhhh... cut-off wheels...
I've seen more than a couple of the more robust cutting wheels on a full-sized angle grinder disintegrate when being used in weird positions on fiddly stuff, and those are much tougher than the little dremel ones... of which I've had *dozens* shatter and flake in use.
The little dremel cut-off wheels are thin and way less robust than the full-sized ones, and pretty liable to break if you make one wrong move on hardened material, like accidentally torquing it to the side slightly when it's in the cut, or any other number of minor mistakes. I had one of the little wheels throw a chunk of itself into my leg, through my jeans, once, and it wasn't pleasant at all. Worse still (with a full-sized 5" cut-off wheel), I witnessed a friend using one take a flying shard to the scrotum — seriously. Required stitches. Missed major plumbing, mercifully, but was a wake-up call about how stupendously fast those things can get potentially lethal.
That said, the little dremel jobbies are also going to throw less weighty chunks around than the big ones when they disintegrate, so there's a somewhat reduced chance of a serious injury with one, but if you go that route MAKE SURE you have proper protection from head-to-knee when its in use: full face shield, heavy leather apron that covers the groin, heavy sleeved protection, gauntlet-style welding gloves, etc.
I've got a healthy respect for all power tools, but cut-off wheels in particular I use with an EXTREME level of wariness and caution, and I don't enjoy using them for much other than straight cuts through material (eg. bolts, bar stock, short welds, etc.) perpendicular to the length of the workpiece, if possible. Great for shortening stuff — there's a reason that they're properly referred to as "cut-off" wheels — not general cutting wheels. The second you start trying to slice laterally into materials, and the more material overhang you have around the wheel, the more chance there is of binding it up, and unleashing hell.
Useful as duct-tape, they are — but I consider them a tool of last resort in most applications.
This thread on another forum contains a particularly graphic photo of a facial injury sustained using a (full-sized) cut-off wheel. NOT for the squeamish, but pretty illustrative of what can and does happen regularly with these tools...
http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/3-most-dangerous-accidents-using-angle-grinders.1073146/
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Vroomhilde-San: Our 1991 Silver Vanagon Westy automatic + Subie EJ25 |
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timichango
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2012
Posts: 858
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| timichango wrote: |
| Weird idea — anyone have any thoughts on using a floor jack to apply leverage under a wrench to get that sucker to turn? |
Lifting on the wrench lifts the wheel off the ground, whereas you need the wheel to press onto the ground (to not rotate). |
E-brake? Or would that simply not provide enough stopping power to hold it stationary?
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Vroomhilde-San: Our 1991 Silver Vanagon Westy automatic + Subie EJ25 |
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chompy
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2014
Posts: 400
Location: Cascade Locks
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| timichango wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| timichango wrote: |
| Weird idea — anyone have any thoughts on using a floor jack to apply leverage under a wrench to get that sucker to turn? |
Lifting on the wrench lifts the wheel off the ground, whereas you need the wheel to press onto the ground (to not rotate). |
E-brake? Or would that simply not provide enough stopping power to hold it stationary? |
You'll actually lift that corner of the van off the ground before the nut lets loose... getting a 6+ foot breaker bar and an acetylene torch is the answer here.
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'81 Westfalia Subaru EJ22
Manual Transmission |
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timichango
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2012
Posts: 858
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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| chompy wrote: |
| timichango wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| timichango wrote: |
| Weird idea — anyone have any thoughts on using a floor jack to apply leverage under a wrench to get that sucker to turn? |
Lifting on the wrench lifts the wheel off the ground, whereas you need the wheel to press onto the ground (to not rotate). |
E-brake? Or would that simply not provide enough stopping power to hold it stationary? |
You'll actually lift that corner of the van off the ground before the nut lets loose... getting a 6+ foot breaker bar and an acetylene torch is the answer here. |
Agreed.
Another option would be seeing if it's possible to find one of those inductive nut removal heater jobbies for rent.
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Vroomhilde-San: Our 1991 Silver Vanagon Westy automatic + Subie EJ25 |
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ClareSutton
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Sarnia Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Frozen Rear Wheel Hub Nuts |
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Ok guys. Two cole chisels, two propane torches heating both sides of the nut, a 14mm socket with 3/4 inch drive, lots of WD-40, a 5 foot bar,a small Dewalt grinder (the real hero) and Ta-da. Now to start the other side...tomorrow. Check out the pics below. Really have to be careful to not damage the threads on the hub or the hub face.
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