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Hard start when warm
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vwwestyman Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

So my Thing has always been difficult to start when the engine is pretty warm.

If it's cold, I can tap the pedal to reset the choke and it'll fire within a couple revolutions usually.

But requires a great deal of cranking to get started when things are hot.

As the oil frequently smells gassy, I'm suspecting that perhaps what is happening is gas in the fuel lines in the engine is getting heated, expanding, and pushed past the float valve--flooding the engine slightly and allowing gas to seep past the rings.

I'm thinking I'll pop the top of the carb and make sure the float valve is sealing, and maybe lower the float a tad.

Any other suggestions?
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williamM
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

Embarassed I put the plastic float hinge in wrong once-- also found the chinese gaskets for the parting line can interfere with the float and hold it down for a second. Check your tank vent- it might be building pressure. over powering the needle valve.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

If your problem is mainly happening when restarting a hot engine on a hot day it could be that alcohol laced fuel is causing the problem. I bored a hole behind my license plate and installed a small thermostatically controlled fan that blows on the carb after shutdown. This helps a lot in getting a hot restart. Others have added a orificed return line between the fuel pump and carb to bleed off the fuel pressure after shutdown (see Busdaddy's post on the Bay Window forum).

Adding a thick insulating gasket under the carb can help as well, as will using a gasket for the heat riser pipes with a smaller hole.

Holding the throttle fully open while cranking will help.
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YDBD
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

Your choke may be closing when hot starting adding too much fuel.

Also check if your fuel cut off solenoid is working, extra gas may be coming in after engine shut off.
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ALANSD
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

I found non ethanol gas, if you can get it, makes a big difference.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

Here is my setup. It is just a computer fan that sucks air through a hole hid behind the license plate and blows air over the carb after shutdown. It is controlled by a thermostatic switch.



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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Here is my setup. It is just a computer fan that sucks air through a hole hid behind the license plate and blows air over the carb after shutdown. It is controlled by a thermostatic switch.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



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Wildthings has a neat idea here and I had mulled doing this as well.
The only difference I was going to try was to not drill any holes if possible and to use a bilge fan blower motor I got for a "redneck air conditioner" setup I tried, some large plastic 3 to 4inch pipe and a aluminum dryer hose setup (was all used on the red neck ac) but to pull air from one of my 73's side vents and direct air onto the carb.

That bilge fan blower has some CFMs too it too, got it from Walmart for $17to 21 bucks I believe.

Only gotcha is it's going to look redneck as heck, but if it works... Very Happy
I was going to try to mount it in the engine bay by the voltage regulator or on the other side by the air filter but haven't got that far yet.

I had not thought of thermostatic switch (good idea) but was thinking I'd just do this manually for a few min before startup.

I'd really like to know if just adjusting the pre-heater pipe gasket holes would really make any difference, I've not been able to find the smaller hole gaskets but prob could fab something.

And a thicker phenolic carb gasket would probably help too.

Wildthings that was a pretty neat job ya did there!
How long does your setup have to run to cool it enough to work? Question Just curious.

Finding non-eth gas for me i'd have to go too far out in the mountains to be worth the trip unfortunately.

T
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

doublecanister wrote:

Wildthings that was a pretty neat job ya did there!
How long does your setup have to run to cool it enough to work? Question Just curious.


It runs quite a long time on a 100F day, maybe 30 minutes or so. The amp draw of the fan motor is very minimal though so I am not worried about running the battery down. I figure cranking the motor at several hundred amps for 30 seconds is worse on everything than running the fan motor for an extended time.

The carb is actually pretty cool at shutdown, but the manifold and rest of the engine are hot. Keeping this heat from reaching the carb is the objective.

I could probably make a nozzle for the fan to concentrate the air flow towards the intake manifold to enhance the performance of the system.
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
doublecanister wrote:

Wildthings that was a pretty neat job ya did there!
How long does your setup have to run to cool it enough to work? Question Just curious.


It runs quite a long time on a 100F day, maybe 30 minutes or so. The amp draw of the fan motor is very minimal though so I am not worried about running the battery down. I figure cranking the motor at several hundred amps for 30 seconds is worse on everything than running the fan motor for an extended time.

The carb is actually pretty cool at shutdown, but the manifold and rest of the engine are hot. Keeping this heat from reaching the carb is the objective.

I could probably make a nozzle for the fan to concentrate the air flow towards the intake manifold to enhance the performance of the system.


Thanks for the info here Wildthings,
I recently got a IR thermometer, I may take some before and after timed temp readings and see the patterns of certain parts and the temps after x minutes after shutdown.

I'm curious on the temps and wonder if just having a fan in the engine bay (on a temp timer like you have) would do the trick?
I've seen a photo someone used a larger radiator electric fan and put it on one side to of the engine bay, it prob was a 14 to 15inch fan unsure the CFM's though.

One other mention,
If I do drive the interstate, and take a earlier exit and drive for 15m or so at 45 or less, the hot start issue isn't so bad (almost non-existent) as just doing a long run and then upon arrival, just shutting it down.

Oil-i'm running Castrol 30w and some rislone additive for more zddp.
Not seen much if any straight 40w around here in a while.
(I think 40w was recommended if the air temps were 90+)

I'll mess around with this idea and see what I can do and if it makes any difference in my situation.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions,

T
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ALANSD
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Hard start when warm Reply with quote

too bad about the non ethanol gas availability. We just started having stations that sell it for a little more $ per gallon, pretty much all over the area here.
Makes my lawn mower and such run a lot better.
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