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Reviving a Syncro
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joetiger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

benandmj wrote:
Breaks indeed. Did you do a rear main while you had everything apart?


I did. I used the original 3-piece design with new housing and seal, torqued to specs.

I also used a new aftermarket oil pan and Reinz oil pan gasket with built-in baffle. I did not use any sealant on the oil pan, because it didn't have any to begin with; however, I did read a few Vortex threads where people either used RTV and no gasket or gasket with Permatex aviation sealant.
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

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benandmj
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Pull the pan first then? Especially if you can do it without pulling the motor back out.
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joetiger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

benandmj wrote:
Pull the pan first then? Especially if you can do it without pulling the motor back out.


I'm going to pull the trans and see what's up. I can do that and access the seal with the motor intact. The nice thing is that there are no more rusty, broken, and/or fused fasteners, which on this van has been half the battle.
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com
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raoul mitgong
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

That van definitely found the right owner.
-d
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

raoul mitgong wrote:
That van definitely found the right owner.
-d


I should rename it P.T. Barnum.
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

joetiger wrote:
raoul mitgong wrote:
That van definitely found the right owner.
-d


I should rename it P.T. Barnum.
Laughing Laughing Cool
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joetiger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Time to come clean about this rear main seal business.

It was leaking when I got the van. I replaced it (a few pages back) and it still leaked.

When I removed the motor from the van a couple of months back, I pulled the housing off and realized that I'd installed the new housing gasket over the old one. How I managed this I do not know. The old one was so embedded in the block that it was almost invisible. Brick wall

So then I figured we should take all of the doubt out of the situation and lay down dumb money for a billet aluminum housing and heavy-duty seal. After reading so many ABA rear main horror stories on Vortex, I thought I was doing myself a favor.

With the engine out, I totally cleaned and prepped surfaces, but couldn't find the housing gasket. Because I had an extra RMS set handy, I used the rubber housing gasket that came with it. Buttoned everything up, and, per the video posted above, had another RMS leak.

After much pondering and eventually a theory, I emailed the maker of my expensive RMS setup and was told no, I should not have used a rubber gasket. I should have used a bead of Reinzosil or the OEM black silicon. No gasket.

This past weekend, empowered but fighting a dreadful cold, I plowed forward. I removed the trans, shafts, flywheel, clutch, adaptor, and found that the RMS looked to be in really good shape. There was no leaking from the seal itself, but I could find evidence of leaking around the bottom of the RMS housing.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After removing the housing, I saw that it was bone dry everywhere except the bottom 1/2 inch on each side. Odd, as there are bolts right there and they'd been torqued properly. (It's hard to see in this picture but the bottom is shiny with oil.)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I cleaned everything up dry and tidy and re-mounted the housing and new seal using a bead of Reinzosil. It went together as it should.

I then went to put the adaptor plate back on, and to my surprise, found that it was not sitting flush. It rocked ever-so-slightly side-to-side.

My high-dollar RMS housing was much thicker than the OEM one and was hitting the adaptor plate. This would explain the leaking out the sides--The adaptor plate was pressing a bunch of additional torque down on the housing, making oil squirt out of the corners.

I removed the housing and checked it with a straight edge--no permanent warping at all. Then I mounted everything back up and figured out where the adaptor was hitting the housing. A bit of grinding along the lip and surface of the adaptor and refitting, grinding and refitting ensued and I was back in business.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I buttoned it all back up, by this point sneezing and coughing myself to death as a winter storm blew into Denver.

I also changed out my trans break-in oil for Swepco 210 (I used 210 because I had some left over from my last change so I only needed to buy an additional gallon. I'll probably switch to 203 at my next change.) There was nothing really noticeable on the drain plug, swarf-wise. I took this photo even though the plug had dropped in the pan and picked up some sludge...Bad photo but you get the point.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I started it up and went around the block a few times, immediately feeling good about it although my nose was now running like a faucet. As I've mentioned before, it runs so smoothly (the van, not my nose) and I could tell immediately that the LSD was happier with Swepco oil. Good times.

I got back to the driveway, left it idling, and went around back to confirm that the RMS problem was solved. Instead I found several droplets of oil on the concrete.

But there may be a positive: at first inspection the drops don't seem to be coming from high up; they start at the oil pan where it meets the bottom of the RMS housing. Did I not tighten the housing studs enough? It's entirely possible; I was probably halfway on a sickness-induced vision quest at that point in the evening.

I'll find out this afternoon, as I'm on the downside of the cold and was able to get out of bed today and go to work. But again, the thing runs like a damned dream. It's a joy to drive. And then I see the drops. I see them in my dreams, actually.

This is the point where a hobbyist and Samba vet such as myself, someone who's been underneath VW's for over thirty years, might look to the heavens and scream aloud,

"Am I Daizee?"

More to come.
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

I had to cut out the entire rectangular section on my adapter, due to the interference issue.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

joetiger wrote:


"Am I Daizee?"



No offense to Daizee but no, definitely not!

For one thing I don't feel like banging my head against a brick wall after reading your posts...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I had to cut out the entire rectangular section on my adapter, due to the interference issue.


That pic is from pretty early in the process. I had to take quite a bit out. In retrospect a clean cut would have been quicker but I was thinking I didn't want to lose too much metal.
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

joetiger wrote:

"Am I Daizee?"


Awesome Joe, just awesome!!! Laughing

The answer is no.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Jake de Villiers wrote:
joetiger wrote:

"Am I Daizee?"


Awesome Joe, just awesome!!! Laughing

The answer is no.


OMG spew on the key board. (I like Daizee a lot though.)
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'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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dkoesyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Joe has your adapter plate shown any stress? Mine has cracked and been repaired and has cracked again.

You're running a boosted aba, I'm running a boosted aba. I'm curious if they deliver the same abuse?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

dkoesyncro wrote:
Joe has your adapter plate shown any stress? Mine has cracked and been repaired and has cracked again.

You're running a boosted aba, I'm running a boosted aba. I'm curious if they deliver the same abuse?


It's in pretty good shape, no cracks that I've seen. It's an old KEP adaptor.
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Friday afternoon I had some free time and decided to do some more snooping on my oil leak. I wiped everything down around the pan and adaptor plate and let the motor idle for about fifteen minutes while I camped out underneath waiting for the drip to start. After a rough week of work and getting over a cold, it really was quite relaxing to lie there in the heat of the engine.

Turns out, it's not leaking from the rear main anymore. The leak appears to be further up and running down the block, naturally dripping at the low point which is the adaptor plate. It took me a long time of watching to figure that out. The oil cooler O-ring is new, but there appears to be some wetness around the PCV hose area where it exits the block.

I did some research and found that it's not uncommon for boosted engines to have whack-a-mole oil leaks, so I might just have to live with it.

I decided to concentrate on a few small things over the weekend. I'm not curing disease or anything, but the small tasks can be enjoyable.

Junkyard-sourced C-clip on the rear wiper.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Door check rods. There's a thread about it here which as a bonus includes some vintage Samba unprovoked anger:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=703980&highlight=door++check++rod

I got a couple from the junkyard last week. The driver's side junkyard one (bottom) was a bit different from the original and in much better condition:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The passenger ones were identical, but the rubber in the junkyard one (left) was in better condition. I'm curious as to how the original's rod got twisted like that.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I love this little tool kit for door cards and rubber/vinyl/plastic bits.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Inside the driver's door.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Again, not rocket surgery, but the new (old) rods work well. The doors don't uncontrollably fly all the way open any longer, so that's good. These are also available new from Van Cafe.

I know that the rear heater gets a bad rap from a lot of folks, but I've always thought that it does a great job. I re-did the one in this van last year and it was working flawlessly. Then out of nowhere, it started making a godawful noise. I couldn't run it due to the racket. I took it apart and, while I am but a simple amateur hobbyist, I was able to quickly and adeptly identify the issue:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Removal of the object resulted in flawless operation of the rear heater.

Here's something that sucks...These OEM German floor mats are about a year old.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The same thing happened to the passengers side mat on my 2wd, but those are six years old so I figured it was just normal wear and tear. Weird.

To summarize, rear wiper not flopping, door rods checking, rear heater quietly heating, rear main not leaking. I'll take it. I'm starting to really value the projects that don't require me to lie on my back all day.

Oh--there is the matter of a pesky little tappy-sounding exhaust leak. It was temporarily remedied with the installation of a tube subwoofer under the rear seat.

Onward!
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com
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joetiger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Had a beautiful morning in Denver so it was bath day.

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I actually talked the fam into riding in it to a lunch birthday celebration today, the first time Mrs. joetiger and her mom have ridden in it since the latest round of work. They seemed pleasantly surprised.
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Yaay for pleasant surprises! Very Happy Cool
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

As referenced in a previous post I formerly had a fantastic little beagle. One day a few summers back I was in my front yard and a neighbor I hadn't yet met strolled by with two happy beagles on leashes. We met and talked beagle while his beagles enthusiastically meet my beagle.

"So, two of them," I said, "I've been thinking about getting Dalton here a running partner."

My neighbor's face turned grave. "Don't do it. I'm serious. One is great and you think two are going to be twice as good, but that's not how it works. They're evil in pairs. They work together to terrorize me. No joke. They're relentless."

And so it apparently goes with Vanagons.

I noticed this morning upon arriving at work that the Syncro had no brake lights (fuse is good, bulbs good, probably a switch.) I drove home carefully this afternoon, happy in the knowledge that my Westy was waiting in the wings for me until I have a chance to figure out the problem with the Syncro.

I needed to run a few errands when I got home. I jumped in the Westy and she fired right up. As I enjoyed the familiar purr of her 2.2, I glanced in the reflection of the car parked behind me. I did a double take. I pumped the brakes frantically.

I have no brake lights.


You're both grounded. Bubbles has to bail me out yet again.

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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

Not trying to start up another one of the giant debates about gear oil, but what is your thinking on possibly going to the Swepco 203 over the 210?

My understanding is that the 210 is an 80w140, and the 203 is a 80w90 with Molybdenum Disulfide.

For what it's worth, I've been running 210, but I am not crazy about the first few shifts into 2nd when very cold.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro Reply with quote

test the switches on the master, and if you do replace them don't buy the cheapest option.. a common failure item. the internals get pushed away from the contacts from age and heavy braking events.

edit:
also the grounds in the back can be ok for the tails but not sufficient for the turns/brakes higher usage. especially in cold, and salt/brine.
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