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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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 Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: insulation |
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OK yeah yeah, I know it's not a new topic. I have my cabinets out to address a small amount of rust behind the water tank (that was visible on the seam outside) and to try to get the fridge working on propane. All the threads I read say to take out the fiberglass.
Then there is endless discussion about what to put in there, the best option seems to be spray on thermal/acoustic insulation. But what is described is expensive and requires spray equipment I don't have... and I have to get everything back together by this weekend for a trip to the high sierras.
There is a certain amount of consensus that anything you stick or glue on to the panels can trap condensation and lead to rust.
What I am thinking of doing is to put small patches of dynamite (for sound deadening) and then (and this is my main question) just put some rigid styrofoam insulation, the pink or blue stuff, NOT GLUED, where the fiberglass wool used to be. I know it won't be really effective, but it might help a little thermally?
Or just put back the fiberglass? There is zero rust ON the panels, just an area about 8" long on the floor under the water fill hook up. So I don't think the fiberglass is causing the rust there. Maybe just spray 77 with that foil bubble wrap? |
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Alaskaberrys 
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Joined: June 19, 2016
Posts: 1001
Location: SE Alaska
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: Re: insulation |
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I haven't done this myself yet - it's on the list  - but my take would be something sealable as it's more about warm air meeting cold metal and condensing. Rigid insulation would be fine, but would have to seal it well to make a vapor barrier that works. I would think this would be easier with foil faced bubble wrap.
There are several really good threads on this - haven't done a good job of bookmarking myself but I bet the FAQ section has it.
Mark
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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SCM
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Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3119
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: Re: insulation |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Really with all that single pane glass and body areas you cannot insulate, how much of a difference will it really make?
Dave |
This has always been my perspective on it too.
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erste
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Joined: March 29, 2013
Posts: 1110
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:14 am Post subject: Re: insulation |
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I found recycled denim insulation at one of the big hardware stores (lowes, I think?). I picked up a bunch of big, thick contractor grade garbage bags, cut the insulation to size, put it in the bag, and taped it up. Much nicer to work with than fiberglass insulation.
It can be stuffed into the panels (especially the rear ones that are odd, small shapes). This was the cheapest and easiest locally available solution I found.
If I had more time or money, I'd go with a product like 3M Thinsulate.
| djkeev wrote: |
| Really with all that single pane glass and body areas you cannot insulate, how much of a difference will it really make? |
That's exactly my experience. Insulated window covers would help a lot though. |
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Merian
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Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: Re: insulation |
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denim is cotton and I don't think you could have made a worse choice
the insulation makes a significant difference for the vehicle stay warmer, despite the single pane windows
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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kamzcab86
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Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7925
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: Re: insulation |
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| llilibel03 wrote: |
| What I am thinking of doing is to put small patches of dynamite (for sound deadening) |
 I don't think dynamite is going to be too sound deadening.
  
My experience with Reflectix (bubble-wrap stuff): I've got it on my garage door and it does a zero bit of good. I put it over the van's "hump" and it's helped mildly, not significantly. The R-value just isn't what fiberglass and other products is. Reflectix can also trap moisture as well if not installed perfectly, which can lead to mold. I know a lot of folks have used it in their vans, but I, personally, wouldn't even if that means spending more on a Dynamat ( ) -type of product.
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Merian
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Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: insulation |
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Reflectix will reduce coupled radiative transfer, and evaporative transfer - not convection or conduction
it is most useful AFTER an "insulation" is used to reduce convection
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: insulation |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| llilibel03 wrote: |
| What I am thinking of doing is to put small patches of dynamite (for sound deadening) |
I don't think dynamite is going to be too sound deadening.
My experience with Reflectix (bubble-wrap stuff): I've got it on my garage door and it does a zero bit of good. I put it over the van's "hump" and it's helped mildly, not significantly. The R-value just isn't what fiberglass and other products is. Reflectix can also trap moisture as well if not installed perfectly, which can lead to mold. I know a lot of folks have used it in their vans, but I, personally, wouldn't even if that means spending more on a Dynamat ( ) -type of product. |
Thanks for the replies.
Dynamite...I guess my computer autocorrected Dynamat.
I bought 4 square feet of dynamite and will put the little squares back there to reduce resonance. No local Home depots or Lowes had the Reflectix so I just bought some styrofoam. I figure it will shield a bit from the radiant heat. coming of the side of the van when in the sun. Since I'm not gluing it it should not be a water trap. |
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djkeev
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figborg
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Posts: 338
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: insulation |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I left my cavity empty. I'm not into Winter camping, I don't like hot camping.
I'd much rather have the air circulating changing with the ambient temperatures. Why trap it in a material or against metal?
I did what was right for me, the next owner can change it as they see fit.
Really with all that single pane glass and body areas you cannot insulate, how much of a difference will it really make?
Dave |
Dave,
Just wondering, you didn't even use Dynamat (or other sound deadening adhesive material) in that area? This is also in my to-do list and I keep postponing it.
-- PF
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llilibel03
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Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: insulation |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Hopefully it doesn't move around and squeak..........
Dave |
Thinking ahead....
Maybe I'll put it in place behind the luan panel but before putting the cabinets in and drive it around a bit. |
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: insulation |
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| figborg wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
I left my cavity empty. I'm not into Winter camping, I don't like hot camping.
I'd much rather have the air circulating changing with the ambient temperatures. Why trap it in a material or against metal?
I did what was right for me, the next owner can change it as they see fit.
Really with all that single pane glass and body areas you cannot insulate, how much of a difference will it really make?
Dave |
Dave,
Just wondering, you didn't even use Dynamat (or other sound deadening adhesive material) in that area? This is also in my to-do list and I keep postponing it.
-- PF |
Nope, nothing.
I did what was right for me. I don't advise others to follow.
I LOATH rust, i understand condensation and hidden moisture build up.
It is heinious in houses, it isn't too different in metal boxes with wheels.
I am also fairly deaf so an ultra quiet ride doesn't hold a real high priority for me.
Dave
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erste
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Joined: March 29, 2013
Posts: 1110
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: insulation |
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| Merian wrote: |
denim is cotton and I don't think you could have made a worse choice
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It's sealed in plastic bags. Did you miss that point?
After six months, it's still bone dry behind the panels. There's no sign that the insulation is holding any moisture.
| dobryan wrote: |
| Yep, If you want to put something in a bag then I'd go back to the fiberglass batting and bag it. |
With the denim insulation, I could do the cutting and stuffing and sealing indoors. It has a similar R value and is a recycled product. Working with fiberglass insulation is too itchy. |
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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: insulation |
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Question-
There are two plastic oblong plugs on the floor behind a rib. There's actually a third in front of the engine (probably more but my seat is in the way). I cannot see daylight. Where does it drain? What good are these if you cannot access them without taking out the cabinets? Can I just leave them off and let them actually drain any water that collect back there?
PS I just looked under the van and they seem to drain in a structural(?) section at the bottom of the rocker panel. Even less desirable to have water there I guess? |
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