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Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one.
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Chris333
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970 Reply with quote

Been busy. I got IRS jigs and welded in the brackets to the 68'. Sand blasted the back half of the body including the under side of the package tray. And got it all coated in epoxy primer. Did the whole ring around the body where it meets the pan to get it ready to mate back up.

Working on putting the brakes back together now. Will replace the fuel line as well. Took the pedal cluster apart to sand blast the parts. Gas pedal pivot was very loose so I ordered a new pedal/pin/spring. Also a new return spring for the brake pedal.

One question Laughing Using this photo:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/409984.jpg
Where the arm "23" goes into the "25" base. How much side to side play should there be? I could shim it up with thin washers.

Thanks
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970 Reply with quote

That is typically a sloppy fit. Not very tight. Looser is better since that is the accelerator pedal arm and you never want that to hang up - ever! Seems to me, I remember the tighter ones having around quarter of an inch of free play, side to side, with fairly new parts, measured at the roller pivot end to the tunnel.
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Chris333
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Thanks. I found some .010" shim washers at work and they made it too tight. So I just left it. Don't think I have quite 1/4" of play yet so must be good.
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Chris333
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

I guess I could put this here as well. Been working on lowering the rear and will end up using air bags in the back.

Cut away the upper spring plate stops.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And now to let the swing arm come up far enough I cut off the shock mount.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Of course I will need to figure out new shock mounts. Will be flipping the arms as well to reduce the camber.

Put some of the brake lines back on yesterday as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

I hope this isn't stupid question number 4080, but...

These are my rear outer bearings. How do you pack these? There is only like a hair gap everywhere. The inner bearings are simple to pack.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


looked up a bunch of bearing packers and none seem like they would work for these. Question
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

I haven't seen a stupid question yet. In fact I wish I had an answer to any one of them. I am in awe of this build already. Man, and the intensity of the progress is intoxicating. Go Chris Go.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

So while waiting for rear axle seals I grabbed the 1600 single port from the 1970. I did not do a compression test yet, waiting on the kit.

I did check the flywheel end play. I got .010". That is supposed to be .004-.006". The thrust bearing is not moving. I've read how to add shim washers to fix this. But it not clear if they are talking about a brand new built engine or a worn engine. The speedo said 90000 miles, but who knows the mileage.

Should I get some shims or leave it alone? While searching I get some people who have 1/4" play and the engine runs fine.

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I plan to get it bolted into the chassis so I can use the starter on the compression test.
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Buggeee
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

If you shim it later in its life like this you will be masking the symptom that tells you the mechanical age of the insides of your motor. As the crank bearings wear the end play increases, because one of the surfaces is thrust, thereby letting you know when its time to go in there and replace them. The other surfaces are wearing too, so the idea is that the thrust end-play measurement is available to give you an idea of what all of the bearing surfaces might be doing inside.

Lots of people post stories of how long their motor kept going even after end-play got bad. If you're crossing the vast unpopulated span of the desert out of necessity that's great to know. On the other hand, if you're building a sick bagged pan-off while shocking the he!! out of slobbering onlookers, you might decide whether to just run this mill in the short run while you build its replacement, or crack it open and give it a freshening as long as you are already there if you intend to keep this as the motor.

If you run it for now, keep in mind that as the bearings wear beyond the tolerances you risk smooshing the surfaces of the case where the bearings sit in the soft magnesium. This can require additional machining (thrust cut in addition to the more typical line-bore) and can also eventually kill a case from what I remember reading about when assessing my case. So.... if you run it as is maybe have its replacement going together in the background so you don't have to run this case into the trash bin.

So, as to what you asked, my understanding says don't shim it as you will need to keep track of what is happening inside if you decide to run it for a while. One voice in the wilderness here...
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Chris333
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

So after further searching it sound like I either replace the bearings now or run it and replace bearings and machine work later.

Bearings are only $50.

There are 9 other (that I know of) beetles within a mile radius of me, maybe I should ask one of them.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

I finally got my rear axle bearing in. It was a nice FAG German bearing so the wait was worth it. So got the rear axle stubs in and all greased up. Able to put the wheels back on and roll it around.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The rear torsion bars out right now. See I need to clear some more room for the center spring plate bolt, it hits right now.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Have new CV axles to grease up and get installed. Would be done, but I cleaned and painted all the bolts...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Sorry for the tardy reply. I pack those rear bearing by hand, working the grease into the interior of the bearings.

I do not ever reset the crankshaft freeplay on engines after 30000 miles. The engine typically does not react well to that tolerance changing at that age.

Replace the bearings when you rebuild the engine, down the road.

Looking good and I will bookmark this thread once again!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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Chris333
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Yeah I just hand packed them as good as I could. Plus the whole area between the 2 bearing is full of grease as well.


I may have a problem. The IRS tranny in the swing axle frame. Do I need to cut reliefs into the frame horns for the CV's to clear? I have less than 1/16" inch.
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I imagine once the engine is hanging off the tranny and bouncing around I will have a problem.

The 1970 frame horns are a little bit flatter in this area.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Yes, you need to clerance them, but you need to weld it back together, so that the frame horns do not fold. I have seen this portion beaten in with a large hammer with some heat. The IRS frames a flatter in that area.

I have never did this, only seen it on cars that would come into the shop. We had a dragster team with an early pan with an IRS tranny, with large flanges. They welded in a cut and then under the cut they add a web stiffener.

I am sure someone here has modified this portion. They will respond.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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Chris333
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Mad And I was enjoying putting stuff back together... Found this:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451376
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Buggeee
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Chris333 wrote:
Mad And I was enjoying putting stuff back together... Found this:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451376


Well... at least it can be done. Two steps forward. One step back. It's looking really good Chris. You'll be dragging your motor when you let the air out of those bags. I'm going to have to make a day trip out to see this scraper next summer. It's going to be impressive.
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(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
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Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Chris333 wrote:
Mad And I was enjoying putting stuff back together... Found this:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451376


That is the educational textbook you needed to sleep at night. Good job finding the answer. That is way better than moving forward, setting the car down on all four to drive it and then find out you have to go back and relieve the frame horns.

At least it is all possible and that you enjoy doing it!!

Have fun! Take a break and return back to it. Small drops in an ocean!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

I have an idea, but don't know enough to know if it will work.

What if I raise the tranny only 1/4"-3/8"?

Will the trans hit the package tray?
Will 1/4" screw up the engine seal?

I can notch the horns, but I would rather raise the tranny to give the oil pan a hair more ground clearance. Work wise the notch may be easier, but the tiny tranny lift is better for me.

I don't have a whole VW to measure and look at so I ask you guys.
Will it work?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

My I suggest another present for yourself...Electronic Ignition. It is spectacular, get a new coil too. Main difference, there are no points, and, its electronic. Good Luck.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Did this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


didn't spend a ton of time cleaning it up since it is sort of hidden. Put 2 large towels soaked in cold water on either side while welding.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a 1970, now got a 1968. Building that one. Reply with quote

Man you work fast!!

Looks awesome!!!

Have you tried out a load to mimic the engine hanging off the horn ends, to see if the frame will hold? I would think you would be fine, but better to test now then have to take everything back apart!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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