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bonecollector
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Joined: September 16, 2003
Posts: 311
Location: Southeast Idaho
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 Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:23 am Post subject: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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If I was the buyer I think I'd probably clear the bare metal, put it back together right down to the builders badge that came with it and drive it to every event I could find.
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René R.
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2015
Posts: 1710
Location: No. Calif.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:46 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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That's not exactly an unknown car....
But why would the new owner opt to re-restore what was pretty much a show-car restoration done only a year earlier?
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Gone but not forgotten: 1950 Hoffman split (restored in 1966) - another 1950 Hoffman split (restored in 1996) |
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banana split
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2002
Posts: 1070
Location: Beautiful British Columbia Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:09 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Holy crap! That car is brutal !!
I feel for the poor owner of that car 
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v.a.s.cleaning
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2007
Posts: 64
Location: antwerp belgium
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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omg
that's not so good
damm not 1 feller so this at the aktion??
damm 
parts car i gess now
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Zwitterkafer
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007
Posts: 877
Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:08 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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This kind of incident highlights the value of obtaining a photographic record of the work that was done. For a 70K purchase I would expect significant objective evidence supporting the claimed value. Also, there's no substitute for doing one's homework and researching what is correct.....before looking at any cars for sale.
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vwhelmot
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006
Posts: 617
Location: united kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:43 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Wrong section. Its not a Zwitter! :D
I would be wanting my money back. |
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tisius
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011
Posts: 1570
Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:08 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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o shit!
If it were my car I probably would not have taken it apart, let alone to bare metal if it was in show condition to begin with. Then again, I would not pay $70k for a Volkswagen either.
But really,
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you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
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vwhelmot
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006
Posts: 617
Location: united kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:47 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| There is more than one meaning to 'show car' It probably looked dodgy in a few places. The rag to bolster up the rear luggage compartment carpet covering up the huge dent in the boot floor is a classic! |
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OvalinAz
Samba Mini Tech
Joined: June 09, 2009
Posts: 1075
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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saw this all over instagram. i believe they saw that the 3 fold was a graft, and some other small thing and the owner decided to redo the car and after it was blasted, well it is gnarly!!!!!
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banana split
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2002
Posts: 1070
Location: Beautiful British Columbia Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Anyone know who built this Frankenstein ?
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René R.
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Joined: July 06, 2015
Posts: 1710
Location: No. Calif.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Just Google "1952 VW zwitter ragtop" and you'll find photo galleries and Youtube clips about the restoration.
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Gone but not forgotten: 1950 Hoffman split (restored in 1966) - another 1950 Hoffman split (restored in 1996) |
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fazeka
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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The title of the thread and the OP is asking: what would I do with it?
Well, if I had bought it and I started to see this upon tear down, firstly I would be pissed  that I spent $70k on it...
After that, though, and the subsequent inevitable cool off, I would probably just try to get some better metal work happening in the conversion. Would never try to pass it off as original but just enjoy it as it is.
At least I could drive it with no fear of it getting ripped off, damaged in an accident, etc.
No doubt, a big price to pay for a fake. But... what would be the alternative? |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5960
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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The biggest crime is that all of the work was kept a secret, and the car was passed off as an original, when the seller knew it wasn't.
If someone posted a thread detailing that much work to cobble a split back together from so many small pieces, I would have been impressed. But yeah, misrepresenting the car as something it's not is horrible.
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nlorntson
Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3783
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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I'd probably clean it up and fix any really awful repairs put it back together as a car with a split rear window and a ragtop that could be enjoyed and driven. Maybe put in a roll cage and a really big engine and race it.
The shop that has it now better be careful of stating that they will "fix" it or make it right.
There is no fixing the fraud.
I sorta like the idea of clearing it and driving it. |
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| René R. wrote: |
| Just Google "1952 VW zwitter ragtop" and you'll find photo galleries and Youtube clips about the restoration. |
Based on what I found online the shop that restored it to that condition started with a black "zwitter ragtop" that had a slightly worn restoration along with funky red upholstery and disk brakes all around. Based on the pictures they didn't strip it to bare metal although you can see a lot of new and old bondo in various pictures. It looks like they just smoothed out the existing body work and painted it.
The work looks like the typical "smooth it all over with bondo" type of job but they don't appear to have been the ones who did all of the surgery to build this monstrosity.
EDIT:After reading more info about the ownership history of this car and I am withdrawing anything that comes across as siding with the shop that did that work.
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You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld
Last edited by splitjunkie on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ajl1971
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2010
Posts: 89
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| esde wrote: |
The biggest crime is that all of the work was kept a secret, and the car was passed off as an original, when the seller knew it wasn't.
If someone posted a thread detailing that much work to cobble a split back together from so many small pieces, I would have been impressed. But yeah, misrepresenting the car as something it's not is horrible. |
I totally agree with you. That is the point, IMO this so called "VW Shop" could not have miss any of the things that were wrong with this car, looking at the gallery on the build you can tell, they are obvious if you know what you are looking at.
I really feel bad for some people, new enthusiasts that are looking at a shiny paint, nice pictures, good video of a car and a great advertisement tool.
From what I saw on a website this guy knows how to take nice pictures and make movies, he was a film maker after all, its on his website. I wont even believe the sparkle effect on his pictures.
He took us all for a ride, that is for sure. This is no fair to the people, this is not fair to the enthusiasts!
Lastly, what do you expect from a guy that uses Home Depot stuff to restore a bug.
What a shame !
P.S : "Concours-quality restoration cars are often given upholstery, paint, plating, and mechanical restoration to a standard far exceeding that of the car when it was new". Imaging a non Concours quality restoration from this guy.
Look at Lenny Copp builds, down to the metal, flawless, done right and trusty honest guy. |
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René R.
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Joined: July 06, 2015
Posts: 1710
Location: No. Calif.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:39 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| Quote: |
| I'd probably clean it up and fix any really awful repairs put it back together as a car with a split rear window and a ragtop that could be enjoyed and driven. |
Just guessing but I'd imagine that doing all the metal work needed, then repainting to a high standard, could cost $20K or more. Add that to the $70K allegedly spent to buy it in the first place and the owner could be out close to $100K for a car that is known to be a cobbled frankenwagen. Sounds like good money after bad.
Of course, if the owner could get a decent settlement from the last restorer that might make it economically viable. That would depend upon whether a settlement could be negotiated without going to an expensive trial.
| Quote: |
| Based on the pictures they didn't strip it to bare metal although you can see a lot of new and old bondo in various pictures. It looks like they just smoothed out the existing body work and painted it. |
Looking at the restoration pictures in the restorer's gallery I find it hard to imagine that they didn't encounter some evidence of hacked repairs. How did they strip the old black paint if not by blasting? How could they overlook so much bondo?
I will be curious to find out what the new owner decides to do....
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Gone but not forgotten: 1950 Hoffman split (restored in 1966) - another 1950 Hoffman split (restored in 1996) |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| René R. wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'd probably clean it up and fix any really awful repairs put it back together as a car with a split rear window and a ragtop that could be enjoyed and driven. |
Just guessing but I'd imagine that doing all the metal work needed, then repainting to a high standard, could cost $20K or more. Add that to the $70K allegedly spent to buy it in the first place and the owner could be out close to $100K for a car that is known to be a cobbled frankenwagen. Sounds like good money after bad.
Of course, if the owner could get a decent settlement from the last restorer that might make it economically viable. That would depend upon whether a settlement could be negotiated without going to an expensive trial.
| Quote: |
| Based on the pictures they didn't strip it to bare metal although you can see a lot of new and old bondo in various pictures. It looks like they just smoothed out the existing body work and painted it. |
Looking at the restoration pictures in the restorer's gallery I find it hard to imagine that they didn't encounter some evidence of hacked repairs. How did they strip the old black paint if not by blasting? How could they overlook so much bondo?
I will be curious to find out what the new owner decides to do.... |
EDIT:After reading more info about the ownership history of this car and I am withdrawing anything that comes across as siding with the shop that did that work.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld
Last edited by splitjunkie on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:10 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ajl1971
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2010
Posts: 89
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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IMO I think we are missing the point here.
1. You can't call a Concours restoration unless you bring the car to bare metal. You need to know exactly what you are dealing with in the first place. That's what most reputable and honest shops do. Then you fix the problematic area and move on. Call it something else but don't mislead people.
2. If you can't tell from what is original and what is not, you are a failure as a business man unless you looked the other way.
3. If you sell a car as something that is not, what do you call it ? Fraud ? Scam ?
So now tell me what happened with this build.
Look at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDiQUG1GNsQ&feature=youtu.be
and this one ; (look at min 2:47)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPWRiMPiZqQ
and this one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avcMhRbJgCs
and why a collectable car as the Zwitter is this was never done according to the photos on the gallery. |
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Wiggy
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Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6601
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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This is a piece of shit fraudulent hack job. And the "shop" that did it knew it. If they didn't, they are completely incompetent, and if so, that fact needs to be known as well.
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