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luftkraft
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Warwick, New York
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 Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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I sure do love those videos of his lol
Here's the video of the fake zwitter resto BEEP BEEP!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBLLa-9Rfy8
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Shit in one hand, wish in the other, see which one fills up first. |
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luftkraft
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Warwick, New York
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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I wonder if any of this will have an effect on the 2 year waiting list to get a build a bug? My KDF beetle needs a restoration asap
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Shit in one hand, wish in the other, see which one fills up first. |
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vwhelmot
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006
Posts: 617
Location: united kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:10 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Whatever happens, this kind of thing is not good for the scene. Its probably happened before and it will happen again. There will always be someone wanting to make a quick buck.
As values of the genuine early bugs rise some shady shitbag will be at it , grafting early parts onto later bodies. |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4092
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:58 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| ajl1971 wrote: |
| splitjunkie wrote: |
Thanks for posting who has it now. Although second hand info, at least lot more info that is coming from someone who is reputable and does excellent work. One thing he said is spot on. If a shop quotes you a set price before tearing into the car, run away. This was apparantly the case with this car. He is actually saying $90K.
I probably was giving the benefit of a doubt prematurely.
While I feel for the person who bought this car, this is what can happen when you have more money than knowledge of what you are buying. Just looking under the car, under the fenders and behind the dash would have told any prospective buyer to run away. |
Looks familiar ?
https://youtu.be/u7eIF4cgFx4
Interesting to watch
https://youtu.be/0zv3H-LDhoM
Even more interesting if you have the time to watch it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4oUeDIKViI |
"A few thousand dollars" to buy a project split or oval? 
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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jays58s
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 2133
Location: Nor-Cal
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Chris Vallone personally stated on Facebook that he built the car for himself and the guy that bought the car hounded him to buy it from him for a while. I know for a fact that he knew exactly what the car had going on. I restore these cars as well and I'm super picky and I go over every car that comes to me with a fine toothed comb and it's not that difficult to see what's been done to a car, especially when it's torn down to just a shell. He's a hack that claims to be one of the most knowledgeable Vw builders there is, but I have yet to see one of his cars that he's built that aren't complete hack jobs. Take a look at the passenger front bumper bracket on this one...
http://www.classicvwbugs.com/Chris65Sunroof/#DSC00562.JPG |
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ajl1971
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2010
Posts: 89
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:39 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Sound like BS to me. If that was true then the guy who apparently bought the car knew exactly what he was getting into and he will never had to strip it down again. Also if what he claims is true why he did not say it, he was not honest.
Remember he says that this car was from his "BS Build a Bug Program" for a customer in Long Island, NY so is not like the guy was begging him after he built it.
If this car would have not been sold to this guy, the car was going to be sold as a 52 true ragtop to somebody else in my opinion.
P.S. : It would have been different if right from the beginning of the build he would have exposed his finds and tell everyone everything along the way, then say, at this point Im building this car for myself knowing that is not a true 52 Ragtop Zwitter, that would have been the right thing to do but it was not in this case. |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4092
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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That is one of those replacement quarter panels that is basically a '68 and later pressing with an adapter front bumper mount for a '67 and earlier car. Certainly not correct by any stretch. OK for a budget restoration but not for someone who wants the car to be accurate.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13270
Location: Tejas!
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4092
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Based on what he said on one of those videos if it is a project he will only give you a couple of thousand for it.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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jays58s
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 2133
Location: Nor-Cal
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
Based on what he said on one of those videos if it is a project he will only give you a couple of thousand for it. |
Yet his project is worth $37,500? Lol |
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ajl1971
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2010
Posts: 89
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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That is very stupid ! Let me tell you, he is an actor !
He believes he is going to clean his hands with that. |
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luftkraft
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Warwick, New York
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| jays58s wrote: |
Chris Vallone personally stated on Facebook that he built the car for himself and the guy that bought the car hounded him to buy it from him for a while. I know for a fact that he knew exactly what the car had going on. I restore these cars as well and I'm super picky and I go over every car that comes to me with a fine toothed comb and it's not that difficult to see what's been done to a car, especially when it's torn down to just a shell. He's a hack that claims to be one of the most knowledgeable Vw builders there is, but I have yet to see one of his cars that he's built that aren't complete hack jobs. Take a look at the passenger front bumper bracket on this one...
http://www.classicvwbugs.com/Chris65Sunroof/#DSC00562.JPG |
Yeah right! He sold that car to a guy who contacted him looking for a split rag bc he liked Vallone's 52 split... he said so on his website... That hack job was sold to an unsuspecting customer as a genuine zwitter even though Vallone knew it wasnt. He is local to my area and many people in the hobby around here have said that around the time of this flim flam Vallone's biz was cash strapped. Now I see him posting here about moving his biz down south to one of the Carolinas... He has been inquiring about the VW scene and if people know any good body shops that do restoration work because him and his father sure don't... I dont even think he owns any tools other than spray paint, roof foil and a pressure washer.
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Shit in one hand, wish in the other, see which one fills up first. |
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jays58s
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 2133
Location: Nor-Cal
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| luftkraft wrote: |
| jays58s wrote: |
Chris Vallone personally stated on Facebook that he built the car for himself and the guy that bought the car hounded him to buy it from him for a while. I know for a fact that he knew exactly what the car had going on. I restore these cars as well and I'm super picky and I go over every car that comes to me with a fine toothed comb and it's not that difficult to see what's been done to a car, especially when it's torn down to just a shell. He's a hack that claims to be one of the most knowledgeable Vw builders there is, but I have yet to see one of his cars that he's built that aren't complete hack jobs. Take a look at the passenger front bumper bracket on this one...
http://www.classicvwbugs.com/Chris65Sunroof/#DSC00562.JPG |
Yeah right! He sold that car to a guy who contacted him looking for a split rag bc he liked Vallone's 52 split... he said so on his website... That hack job was sold to an unsuspecting customer as a genuine zwitter even though Vallone knew it wasnt. He is local to my area and many people in the hobby around here have said that around the time of this flim flam Vallone's biz was cash strapped. Now I see him posting here about moving his biz down south to one of the Carolinas... He has been inquiring about the VW scene and if people know any good body shops that do restoration work because him and his father sure don't... I dont even think he owns any tools other than spray paint, roof foil and a pressure washer. |
That right there tells me Chris knows he's been caught. Not being able to keep your story straight is a sign. The sad part is that his followers will ignore this issue. |
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My57Oval
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:05 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Me, i would lawyer up and get the $ back, of course depending on the real chain of events. Otherwise, i'd just part it out and then crush the shell so its gone and doesn't end up in someone elses hands.
Somebody spent a lot of time on the metal. Amazing how bad the work is for the amount of time that must have been put into it.
$70K could have probably bought a fairy low mileage original survivor Split i would think. I don't particularly care for ragtops anyway and think that the premium paid for one is not nearly worth having the wind in yer hair and buffeting the interior of the car to the point of making the driver deef.
Just like having to have the million dollar house on the water. I'd rather the $500K house inland and just drive my self to the beach in my pristine Pre A 356 or whatever that i buy would the savings.
Someone was really good with Bondo though eh? Quite the plaster craftsman. Might want to change trades and just go into the drywall business. Better money and less critics i bet!
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46split
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2006
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:32 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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Not Sure why Chris does not just own up to it and move on?( I do know as he would have to cough up 70k that he does not have). I think that this owner will not be the last. I have to see how many others have been dooped that don't even know or the buyers of those cars? SAD. All this does is make it more difficult for us who own real zwitter rags to be scrutinized come time we want to sell  |
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DDub
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 307
Location: central pa.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| I hardly see how this POS reflects on other zwitter rag owners. It clearly was done with knowledge that something that was not real was created and not disclosed to the buyer. MAYBE the first buyer knew but obviously not this one. |
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 936
Location: St. Louis, MO
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46split
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2006
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| from what i understand is the vin was grafted to an oval hack so the only thing zwitter is the vin from what i gather |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4092
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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| 46split wrote: |
| from what i understand is the vin was grafted to an oval hack so the only thing zwitter is the vin from what i gather |
We really have no way of knowing the whole story. I think it is very possible that the car was a rusted out zwitter hardtop that someone used a '54 or early '55 as a donor car to put it back together using all of the zwitter only parts and while they were at it they grafted in a rag top. Given the thin punky metal on some areas of the roof clip I think it is safe to say that this is what the roof clip came from. I would be curious if there is a hole for a split dash split dome light or if it is solid and does the zwitter dome light hole look factory. That would reveal if the roof is from a zwitter or not.
Then again it could have been parts from many cars to make it what it is.
I bought a '54 in New Jersey many years ago and it has some serious rust down below but the top half was quite solid. Northern cars didn't hold up back then.
To me the car wouldn't be a hack if:
The pan matches the VIN and body number and the roof matches the details of a zwitter.
It had been properly reassembled by someone who did quality metal work.
Kept it a hard top.
Thoroughly documented and disclosed. This is key.
It would be a plus if the engine was original to the car but not necessary.
Classic cars (Dusenbergs and the like) get re-bodied or heavily rebuilt due to severe rust or accident damage (I can think of several Rometschs that meet this description) and when done properly and when disclosed they still sell for big bucks.
None of this were the case with this particular car so it definitely qualifies as a hack job.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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TinCanFab
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 2743
Location: Waterford, California
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do with this 52 Zwitter? |
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If you spend that kind of money on a car and don't do your own due diligence, oh well too bad. Everyone will have opinions on build quality. If you bought a 52 with a terrible restoration, at least you still got a 52.
The VIN tampering changes everything. I agree someone needs to lawyer up. The grafts, bondo, etc will never hold up in court, but the fraud crosses the line. Chris, if your shop had hands on in any way as a restoration, you deserve to go down in flames. No way you can claim to be that ignorant after posting so many videos about what to look for in buying a Beetle. The only way you can be left off the hook is if you and your guys just bought and flipped it, but even then what does it say about your shop?
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Check out my truck brought back from the dead... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420762&highlight=sprayed+blood
They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092 |
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