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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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 Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: What the hell is it round ..... |
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Got a box of parts with my 64 a couple of years ago and finally deciding what I'm keeping or tossing. Came across this little gem. My wild ass hairy guess is some sort of hard start relay?
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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It's a starter solenoid for a domestic vehicle, commonly used on VWs when there's a starting issue due to voltage drops.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| It's a starter solenoid for a domestic vehicle, commonly used on VWs when there's a starting issue due to voltage drops. |
Makes sense as the car was having intermittent starting issues. Kind of the same thing as a hard start relay?
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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Yes except that the unit that you have (or a new version of it) can carry a lot more current.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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Clean both ends & contact points of your battery cables (And the wire into the terminal clamps if someone has put these on.), both ends of the ground strap from your transmission to chassis & the connections at the starter & fuse panel and to the headlight switch (the ignition switch gets power from the headlight switch.).
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Clean both ends & contact points of your battery cables (And the wire into the terminal clamps if someone has put these on.), both ends of the ground strap from your transmission to chassis & the connections at the starter & fuse panel and to the headlight switch (the ignition switch gets power from the headlight switch.). |
"Was having" is the key phrase in my earlier post.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34022
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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[quote="Sharp64"]
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Kind of the same thing as a hard start relay? |
Yes, but very heavy duty for this application. Some add the hard start relay to a VW to improve the voltage to the SOLENOID, but this heavy duty relay was often used to handle STARTER current on American cars, so it's way oversized for the application, but will work.
Confusingly, this large relay is often called a "solenoid" in American repair manuals and parts books. |
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hitest
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Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:20 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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they're embarrassing to have mounted in your car- but someday handy in your emergency road kit.
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
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rockerarm
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Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:47 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| hitest wrote: |
| they're embarrassing to have mounted in your car- but someday handy in your emergency road kit. |
The only embarrassing thing I can think of is not having one when your stranded and the car wont crank over. We've used them on 6v cars for years quite successfully. Back in the early '70's many other fixes weren't as popular or as widely known as today.
In fact, a couple models of VW's, the Rabbit/Jetta automatic and the Vanagon Westy 4-speed and automatic, were having no crank issues in the Southwest part of the country and VWoA could not cure the problem thru their normal diagnostics. The install fixed an inherent problem with the starter being close to the hot exhaust. |
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12409
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:03 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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More often than not, there actual "cause" of that issue is poor contact at the ignition switch! That is why it won't turn over with the key but if you get under it will turn over with a screwdriver... while getting dirty too. 
My Plump Truck does it so much I installed a wire from the starter which just hangs in the engine compartment. That way when it fails to turn over, I just use it to touch the positive post on the battery. No more getting under it just to crank the bitch! 
I do need to just put a "push botton" in there instead of the hanging wire which is good to have when working on the motor and need to crank it but you are by yourself. 
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34022
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| Or just replace the ignition switch. Or put a pushbutton on/near the dash. |
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tootype2crazy
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Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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If you happen to get your hands on a NOS ignition switch and want it to last forever, use one of these. A relay requires a just a small amperage to signal it to close, whereas the starter solenoid requires quite a bit more amps. Those amps + resistive wires over time do damage to the switch.
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air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's) |
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KTPhil
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34022
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| If you happen to get your hands on a NOS ignition switch and want it to last forever, use one of these. A relay requires a just a small amperage to signal it to close, whereas the starter solenoid requires quite a bit more amps. Those amps + resistive wires over time do damage to the switch. |
I agree that a rare ignition switch should be protected by a hard start relay (one of the few times I recommend them), but the Ford solenoid is overkill. A simple foglamp relay or equivalent will work. Install it under the back seat, not under the car, for best reliability. |
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| rockerarm wrote: |
| hitest wrote: |
| they're embarrassing to have mounted in your car- but someday handy in your emergency road kit. |
The only embarrassing thing I can think of is not having one when your stranded and the car wont crank over. We've used them on 6v cars for years quite successfully. Back in the early '70's many other fixes weren't as popular or as widely known as today.
In fact, a couple models of VW's, the Rabbit/Jetta automatic and the Vanagon Westy 4-speed and automatic, were having no crank issues in the Southwest part of the country and VWoA could not cure the problem thru their normal diagnostics. The install fixed an inherent problem with the starter being close to the hot exhaust. |
I agree, that's why I have one mounted and operating in my 6v '65 Westy. It simply works- but I make it wear a mask when we go out.
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6621
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| If you happen to get your hands on a NOS ignition switch and want it to last forever, use one of these. |
I've got quite a few NOS switches. Is there a standard way to add these to a vehicle? I'd like to be able to pass this information along to my customers.
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EverettB
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6621
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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I see. Funny.
One of my Beetles came to me because someone tried to put a hard start relay in and couldn't get it to work and the vehicle never ran after that. Actually, that was my first one since I had the one as a teenager. I might not be here with you folks if I hadn't of found that car.
I'm going to beg the question, one which has been asked before, but these cars didn't come with a hard start relay. These cars didn't need them when built but as Everett mentioned in the other thread there are years of buildup/headlight switch etc in the electric system. If you take care of your car you really don't need these it seems.
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www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| kawfee wrote: |
I see. Funny.
One of my Beetles came to me because someone tried to put a hard start relay in and couldn't get it to work and the vehicle never ran after that. Actually, that was my first one since I had the one as a teenager. I might not be here with you folks if I hadn't of found that car.
I'm going to beg the question, one which has been asked before, but these cars didn't come with a hard start relay. These cars didn't need them when built but as Everett mentioned in the other thread there are years of buildup/headlight switch etc in the electric system. If you take care of your car you really don't need these it seems. |
Hi. I see funny also. I see some flaws in your post here.
1- If a prior owner installed a HSR and couldn't get it working properly possibly there were other issues with this car. Possibly it wasn't installed correctly or a cheap relay/connection failed.
2- The comment on if one takes care of their car they don't need these things. When I was a dealer tech VWoA was confronted with at least 2 models of cars that had chronic no-crank scenarios when hot in the Southwest USA. Some of them were still under warranty. They failed miserably at finding and eliminating the fault. We installed the HSR and the issue disappeared.
Plenty of car enthusiasts to this day are retrofitting this style of relay to enhance or protect circuits. Vintage Porsches, Street Rods, Hot Rods, RV's, and our air-cooled cars.
Not everyone out there can replace every component in a circuit to eliminate a diagnosed concern. The air-cooled car is unique in that the drivetrain is quite a bit more of a distance away from the electrical components that serve them and the battery is at times in the middle of the car. Long wire lengths can increase resistance.
Hope this helps, Bill. |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6621
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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| rockerarm wrote: |
Hi. I see funny also. I see some flaws in your post here.
1- If a prior owner installed a HSR and couldn't get it working properly possibly there were other issues with this car. Possibly it wasn't installed correctly or a cheap relay/connection failed.
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The issue ended up being a fuse that looked good but wasn't.
| rockerarm wrote: |
2- The comment on if one takes care of their car they don't need these things. When I was a dealer tech VWoA was confronted with at least 2 models of cars that had chronic no-crank scenarios when hot in the Southwest USA. Some of them were still under warranty. They failed miserably at finding and eliminating the fault. We installed the HSR and the issue disappeared.
Plenty of car enthusiasts to this day are retrofitting this style of relay to enhance or protect circuits. Vintage Porsches, Street Rods, Hot Rods, RV's, and our air-cooled cars.
Not everyone out there can replace every component in a circuit to eliminate a diagnosed concern. The air-cooled car is unique in that the drivetrain is quite a bit more of a distance away from the electrical components that serve them and the battery is at times in the middle of the car. Long wire lengths can increase resistance.
Hope this helps, Bill. |
Thanks.
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Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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HMVWNAB
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2006
Posts: 1089
Location: Sunshine State
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:43 am Post subject: Re: What the hell is it round ..... |
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Gene Berg relay mod.
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