Pieseler ball joint tool 459 - source?

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[wcfvw69]

[Wasted youth]

Okay, I will investigate this idea.

[lil-jinx]

I have often used that type of clamp/press to remove anchor pins from truck brakes,when using a 3/4 air gun I found that it tended to open up the clamp.By just tightening them down with a 1/2 gun,not over tight, then remove the gun and socket from the tool and give the tool a smart smack, with a small 2 lb hammer,hit the end of the clamp screw where your socket goes.the shock from the blow will pop it out,just keep wrenching it down and hitting it until it's out.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Wasted youth]

I like the idea you present and did not consider the good possibility of deforming the jig with excessive torque. Your idea is pretty close to how I removed the Pittman arm yesterday, except that I gave the arm a good whack when the puller was tight. I will give that a try on the upper ball joints, but don't know if I will have room to swing the hammer.

Alternatively, I was thinking if I raise the bus up a bit higher and swap the clamp and sleeve arrangement 180'' out from normal, I might proceed as before.

[Wasted youth]

I got them knocked out yesterday. Raised bus some more to clear the tooling set-up, and reversed the arrangement, coming up from underneath instead of the top. Could not use the VW459 spacer part of the tool due to its length exceeding the capacity of the FLAPS C-clamp opening, so I used the shorter piece in thier kit. This interfered with the length of the old ball joint threaded stem, so I cut that off in a minute with the 4 inch carbide blade.

No 40 ton press needed and no need to remove torsion arms. Ball joints did not come out with explosive force. No one got hurt. No massive amounts of heat or penetrating oil needed... in fact none at all. Some of the things I have read in the Samba regarding this process baffles me. Thank you to all that helped answer my questions!

[TDCTDI]

You're lucky, I've tweaked a 40 ton press just before the ball joint released with an explosion of parts & tools, & that was with a Beetle arm.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[Wasted youth]

[tootype2crazy]

[hometurbine]

So I thought I'd share my experience and ask a follow-on question.

I decided to make my own 459 tool as shown. I did use a 50 ton press and have to say pushing those out was one of the scariest experiences of my life. The pop was pretty impressive. Bring spare pair of underwear! As you can see it deformed the edges of the removal tool (so make them wider), but after the first one it probably work-hardened and stabilized. Pressing them back in was pretty easy, but note that when re-installing the ball joints you have to leave space on the back side to push all the way through (I used an old torsion arm). If not you will squish it....ask me how I know....

I'm pretty happy with how they turned out. By pressing them in/out I was able to powder coat them without worry of flame or other damage. I also decided to go with the OE brand ball-joints since I hear they still have the machined head vs. OEM that now are sheet stampings that reportedly don't last long.

Follow-up question for re-install of torsion arms in beam. What grease should I use? I think the Bentely states Moly (modified lithium) or multi-purpose lithium grease for beam, but only lithium for the front bearings (sections 9.2 and 9.5.3). There is also "high temperature" multi-purpose lithium grease. Would it make sense to use the high-temperature lithium for both?
Thanks

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Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[wcfvw69]

[raygreenwood]

Do not use high temperature wheel bearing grease in ball joimts and tie rod ends. Its not that it cant lubricate......its the fact that its designed to get warm at minimum....to flow..... and can stand heat. Its not really designed to work as well in a system that does not squeeze it enough to shear it and cause thinning and flow.

A ball joint does not get hot from its operation. It needs a grease that has additives in it that can lubricate ALONE.....through sliding motion......even if the body of the grease never thins at all. That would be high molybdenum content grease.

Yeah...sure...you can get away with almost any grease....but over time the lithium complex greases will ALWAYS begin to break down and become corrosive. A high molybdenum content helps damp this process.....but the moly is actually the REAL lubricant here.

Look for greases with 3-5% moly or higher. Most of those are going to be black nasty greases because of the high moly content. Most greases with fancy red or blue colors that are listed as lithium fortified only have 0.5% to 2% max moly.

Use a polyurea grease if you can find it.....or a synthetic. They can mix with aluminum and lithium complex.

With the high difficulty of botb replacing ball joints on a bus...and finding good parts.....I would spend a few minutes when shopping for grease and pull up the msds/sds sheets and look at what's in them. Ray

[hometurbine]

Ray,
on greases. I think you partially answered the question. I was asking about front beam and front wheel bearing greases, NOT the ball-joints since those come pre-greased. Based on your input and Bentley does this sound right?

1) Beam --> over 3% moly or multi-purpose lithium, NOT high temp.
2) Front bearings --> multi-purpose lithium, or high-temp lithium.

I guess I'll add the 3rd category since you answered that:
3) ball joints--> over 3% Moly, synthetic, or polyurea

Correct? Would you add synthetic to the front bearings?

wcfvw69,
"OE brand". I saw a thread of cut-ups of recently made ball-joints for different brands and these stood out. I can find the article if you want. I guess it's run by an American company, but made in China. Regarding old ball joints, one was loose, one was stuck. Both new ones don't move freely, but maybe running them a bit may change that.

Thanks
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[wcfvw69]

[raygreenwood]

[hometurbine]

Thanks Ray for the input. Good stuff.

wcfvw69,
here is the ball joint cut-away comparison I was talking about. Click the images to see close-ups.

http://www.wagenswest.com/how_to/bus_vanagon_ball_comparison.php

Thanks
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[wcfvw69]

[bastardbus]

I have not heard anyone mention peening the bj after installation with tool #471.

Not needed anymore or just something that slips folks minds....?
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Samba Member #95

[Wasted youth]

I swedged around the tops of mine with a center punch and ball peen hammer. Six divots equally per ball joint.

[skills@eurocarsplus]