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Injection help intermittent bucking when cold damp or rain
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:25 pm    Post subject: Injection help intermittent bucking when cold damp or rain Reply with quote

79 2.0 FI Kombi, Riviera....running like crap. Compression is 1)118, 2)117, 3)115, 4)130??
3&4 plugs are black,rich, 1 also rich, 2 perfect.
Injectors at 3&4 dribbling barely so why running rich? Continuity is good at injector as is power..Fuel pressure is great at manifold test plug between 3&4. Haven't pulled injectors at 1&2, tomorrow...where to source new bosch injectors?
Been troubleshooting an intermittent bucking problem driving me crazy....cold damp or rain seems to effect but now it's full time barely runs....pulled 3 then 4 plug wire as it was barely running with no change so their not firing at all,got spark.
Replaced dual relay to no avail, ohm checked relays,sensors all good. ThoughtI might have had condensation in fuel. Rethinking that so hunting for injectors and all I see is ridiculous expensive
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Dump some FI cleaner into your tank and check and clean your fuel injection grounds. All so check what voltage you have on the #15 (positive) terminal on the coil.
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Bentley says if not spraying replace. Took that as gospel, never thought to run injection cleaner. I'm willing to try anything thanks.
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Won't remain running enough to to get injection cleaner through......
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

With the key on, remove the air filter element and hold the flap in the AFM open with a pencil.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Quote:
cold damp or rain seems to effect but now it's full time barely runs....


classic symptom of worn out ignition. When did you last do a full tune up on it with BOSCH parts or equal like Standard Motor Products, BERU etc - plugs, points, cap, rotor, wires then set the dwell and timing if it uses points?
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

She had a full tune recently cap, wires, rotor, condenser (twice as one was bad)oil screen,filter, fuel filter...2.6-3 ohms on injectors. so I picked up new injector seals, fuel pressure gauge and carb cleaner. Continuity checked entire injection harness, grounds etc...test light dual relay (all good) so tomorrow I'll check ts1, ts2, everything related, clean injectors, check fuel pressure hoses for obvious cracks leaks.
Amskeptic laid out a path on Itinerant for another bus with same problems
(His was bad busboy plug wires affecting ECU.)
I'm learning. I'm learning a lot. Shout out to you guys, the forums, the knowledge..I'll get to the bottom of this before I rebuild the ol girl.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

kevineo wrote:
79 2.0 FI Kombi, Riviera....running like crap. Compression is 1)118, 2)117, 3)115, 4)130??
3&4 plugs are black,rich, 1 also rich, 2 perfect.
Injectors at 3&4 dribbling barely so why running rich? Continuity is good at injector as is power..Fuel pressure is great at manifold test plug between 3&4. Haven't pulled injectors at 1&2, tomorrow...where to source new bosch injectors?
Been troubleshooting an intermittent bucking problem driving me crazy....cold damp or rain seems to effect but now it's full time barely runs....pulled 3 then 4 plug wire as it was barely running with no change so their not firing at all,got spark.
Replaced dual relay to no avail, ohm checked relays,sensors all good. ThoughtI might have had condensation in fuel. Rethinking that so hunting for injectors and all I see is ridiculous expensive


1. 79 is hydraulic lifters so if you are trying to run compression tests cold this can explain the wicked numbers. Only do a comp test with the engine warm and hydraulic lifters completely pumped up.

2. Check your fuel pressure. Also- pull the vacuum hose off your regulator and see if you smell gas there. Smelling gas on the vacuum side is a sure sign of failure.

3. Low fuel pressure will mimic a rich condition. Why? Because the injectors need to spray ATOMIZED fuel... and that means the fuel needs the correct pressure behind it. Any less and you are chasing your tail with condemning injectors.

Do NOT replace your injectors under any circumstances until fuel pressure is correct.

My SWAG is that you are going to find a failing fuel pump but if you smell gas at the vac side of the reg replace it too.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

If it has points, ditch them and put in a pertronix ignitor with a new 3 ohm coil and never look back. If you drive your bus a lot, points are nothing but a maintenance nightmare, especially these days with so many shoddy points and condensers on the market. When you have what you think are FI issues, always and I mean always start with the ignition system first and make sure it's up to snuff. 80% of the time it's the ignition system.
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Rigged a tube to a can of carb cleaner to the injectors, hit'm with a 9 volt battery and they sprayed perfectly....new seals re- installed injectors, fuel pressure check at rail 37-38/pulled vacuum line at regulator 38-39...
While checking distributor/ wiring found leaking advance hose,began checking all....
maybe this belongs on the "stupid question thread" What do you guys think of shrink wrap on those OG vacuum lines??? I did the little one at the distributor as it leaked badly. No more leak but no change still won't run!

Tootypet2crazy; Petronix. I'll read up on that thank you.
I'm ordered a set Ham heads in prep for a complete rebuild however I'm determined to fix this issue and learn while I have a few weeks for Lenny to complete heads (if not longer) Perhaps Petronix on the new motor.

Have at it guys set me straight. Tomorrow's another day......
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

kevineo wrote:
Rigged a tube to a can of carb cleaner to the injectors, hit'm with a 9 volt battery and they sprayed perfectly....new seals re- installed injectors, fuel pressure check at rail 37-38/pulled vacuum line at regulator 38-39...
While checking distributor/ wiring found leaking advance hose,began checking all....
maybe this belongs on the "stupid question thread" What do you guys think of shrink wrap on those OG vacuum lines??? I did the little one at the distributor as it leaked badly. No more leak but no change still won't run!

Tootypet2crazy; Petronix. I'll read up on that thank you.
I'm ordered a set Ham heads in prep for a complete rebuild however I'm determined to fix this issue and learn while I have a few weeks for Lenny to complete heads (if not longer) Perhaps Petronix on the new motor.

Have at it guys set me straight. Tomorrow's another day......


Make sure you don't have a major vacuum leak somewhere. It's also possible that it backfired up through the intake and your air flow meter flap is stuck wide open or a big vac line is off. Make sure the AFM door moves freely and isn't stuck.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

intermittent bucking problem driving me crazy....cold damp or rain
Check the ground under the plenum
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

tighten your temp sensor II and test.
Ignition High Tension Leaks
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Took those grounds under plenum off yesterday cleaned them up, did a continuity to injectors ground. I'll check temp sensor tomorrow thank you...
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Maybe not injection at all.... found and repaired a couple small hose with bad leaks. Found EGR box tube at exhaust leaking don't know if that effects anything but I blocked it off with a gasket at upper connection through tin. PO had it blocked when I purchased but I repaired properly for smog including adding missing EGR box. Onward pto check ignition system.....
Cleaned re-gapped plugs...she started. Rough rough but stays idling now. Ok, here's where I need assurance plus I need to read my schematic tonight again; attempting to set dwell via remote starter and I turned key to second position so she started but every time I connected the dwell meter to ground it died. Odd. Put my hand on the coil and it was smoking hot?
Dwell meter: green to coil neg/ black to body ground
Coil neg: green wire to condenser/ white wire to injection harness near r/h under air cleaner.
Coil pos: 1 black running to firewall Drivers side/ 1 black to a relay above fan.
I appreciate all input ThankYou
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Sure your points are set right? If they are barely opening that will give both a poor spark and cause the coil to run hot. Do you have a coil with an internal resister or one that requires an external resister?
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

OG black coil 1979. Internal. Points are 44 dwell. Can cranking too much or leaving the key in on position cause this? I was running it, stopped to pull and gap plugs then noticed I left key in on position. I was using remote starter button.....I'm gonna get an SVA Petronix and well, maybe I need a new coil now. I gotta say the spark was weak.
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

OG black coil 1979. Internal. Points are 44. I was running it, stopped to pull and gap plugs then noticed I left key in on position. I was using remote starter button.....I'm gonna get an SVA Petronix distributor and well, maybe I need a new coil now. I gotta say the spark was weak.

Just reading up; leaving the key on will definitely smoke the coil. My bad.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

kevineo wrote:
OG black coil 1979. Internal. Points are 44. I was running it, stopped to pull and gap plugs then noticed I left key in on position. I was using remote starter button.....I'm gonna get an SVA Petronix distributor and well, maybe I need a new coil now. I gotta say the spark was weak.

Just reading up; leaving the key on will definitely smoke the coil. My bad.


Guess why original dealer VW radios were wired directly to battery power? No key accessory position. Battery power to the radio avoided burned points and smoked coils when you sat in your VW with the radio on. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

every time I connected the dwell meter to ground it died.
This is odd. What is the make and model of your Dwell meter?

Can leaving the key in on position cause this?
Smokin hot coil? Yes.
Let's use the analogy of the coil being a battery (it clearly isn't). If the points are in a closed position, with the key on. It charges the coil. With no way to release this energy the energy is transformed into heat. Like a battery being overcharged. If it gets too hot, this melts the wire inside the coil and shorts them to one another. It also fry's the points.
Time to test the coil.
thnx mayor ratwell
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BlueCoil.html

Test the temp sensor II (TSII)?
It seems like 70% of drivability problems are the TSII.
thnx mayor ratwell
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/TempSensorII.html

3&4 plugs are black,rich, 1 also rich, 2 perfect.
This is an indication something is wrong with that cylinder. Plug is not firing, vacuum leak is making the mixture too lean, fuel injector not spaying.

Good luck
Tcash
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kevineo
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Injection help Reply with quote

Tach/Dwell/Voltmeter by Sear's model# 161.216500. Definitely odd results.
Thanks TCash, I'll read the links provided and keep at it.
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