lifter removal, inspection and cleaning

[atomatom]

My heads are off at the moment, 84 1.9L, and I'm wondering if I should do any inspection or maintenance on the lifters. I tried searching for info on this, but the search results are full of noisy lifter threads - where removing and inspecting the lifters would require cutting a pushrod tube at least.

I've read the excellent article on ratwell but it does not talk about any maintenance of the lifter: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html#oilhole

Are there any simple tests I can do on the bench to see if the lifters should be either repaired or at least cleaned? If I fill the lifter with oil, is one test to apply pressure to the top and see if it holds the pressure?

Or am I better off leaving this alone - ie, not broke don't fix. My van had the somewhat typical clack clack when I neglected to drive it each week.
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[Jeff's Old Volks Home]

In y opinion, I'd likely replace them. Now is the time, no extra labour for you. Make sure you lube the base or foot of the new lifter with a quality engine assembly lube before you install them.
If they were noisy before, they're not going to heal themselves by replacing head gaskets.
Jeff
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www.jeffsoldvolkshome.com
2004 Jetta TDi Wagon
2002 Smyth Ute TDi
1990 Vanagon weekender Syncro AAZ
1987 Syncro Doka AAZ...soon to be TDI
2014 DL650ABS Xpedition
1986 Weekender Syncro (Under construction)
1987 Westfalia (Under construction)
1987 Syncro Single cab

[morymob]

The problem i see is putting new lifters with an old and worn(?) cam. If wear is a minimum i just take apart, soak in laq thinner a bit, oil up and put back together, Make u a holder so u don't mix up locations, no problems with any done this way. With a good oil & changes when needed cam/lifters r a tough combo & go well over 300K & still good(this i know personally).

[atomatom]

Thanks guys.

@Jeff - yeah, another $~100 - the trouble is where does that stop!

@morymob - thanks. I had read on another thread about not mixing them up. I presume that cleaning them might help slow how fast they bleed down?


Is there any test I can reasonably do on the bench before I take them apart? Or are the operating conditions of the engine too different that this would be useful (eg, the temperature and pressure required)
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[ftp2leta]

Look for physical damage, make sure the cir-clip are fine. Otherwise don't touch them. I have seen 2 bad one in 10 years.

Ben
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[Jeff's Old Volks Home]

[atomatom]

Thank you Ben - much appreciated. Do you take them apart to inspect or just look at the outside to see if they're worn/scraped/dented?

Jeff - I know, it stops when I sell the van (or have it towed off to the wreckers). I just have a lot of other things I can spent $100 on my van and replacing parts that are still working are not on the top of the list.

My engine has been sitting in the driveway now for 5 months. Would it be normal for all of the lifters bleed down in that time?

This guy's rather epic rebuild photo thread includes a lifter shot because he noticed these two were 'soft' - (so sad that he never comes back after posting how terrible his engine ran after all that work!) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3011468#3011468
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[atomatom]

i inspected my lifters, found three soft - so i pulled them apart. after i had that down, i decided to do the rest. the oil inside them was pretty horrid looking - and perhaps 30 years old. so they now are clean and filled with synthetic oil.

disassembling the lifter was easy enough - although the plunger barrel didn't want to come out. in the end, i wrapped tape around the arms of my circlip pliers, gently inserted and opened them, then pulled slowly and they came out with a satisfying schlooorp.

a gentle but firm squeeze with needle nose pliers removes the cap that hold the spring and ball that make the check valve. my understanding is this is one of the main parts that needs a good clean.

i dropped the lot in simple green, then acetone. gave it a wipe down and reassembled.

i didn't take many pictures during that time - it is pretty mucky work and i didn't fancy melting my phone with acetone finger.

here is a picture of the lifter and the plunger barrel. not shown is the pushrod socket and circlip, those go in after

i used the boston bob revelation of shoving something in the oiling hole (red) when filling with oil. http://www.syncro.org/boston_bob-hydrauli-lifter-lore.html

the procedure was pretty simple. place lifter body upright, add spring, add small quantity of oil (perhaps 1/4 of the way up to the oiling hole), then add the plunger. add more oil to fill plunger. then use a chopstick (great tool for this) to push the plunger down by the ball (green arrow). most of the oil in the plunger will get sucked in through the ball. repeat until no more oil gets sucked in. then, while holding the plunger down with chopstick, jam something in the oiling hole (red) - bob says to use a scribe - i used a screwdriver. this holds the plunger down. then add some oil, not much, but enough to dribble out the oiling hole a bit. then add pushrod socket and circlip - carefully remove the jamming tool (in my case a small screwdriver) from the oiling hole.

if you did good, the lifter will be rock solid when you push on the pushrod socket. if they give at all, repeat. i had to re-do 3 of them. when i was done, i had 8 rock solid lifters.

i don't know if this is good practice - i can imagine there is a risk from scratching with the screwdriver, but i was very happy with the result. i'll report back when the engine is running. the alternatives for doing this job were ridiculous (see the bob article for summary on that).
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[atomatom]

someone asked me via PM how these were holding up. i'd say so-so. at least one bleeds down after a few days. so depending on where the valves are, it'll have a short clatter. not always, just if the leaky one is under pressure.

i don't know if better bench testing (simulate spring) would have helped. i would be inclined to spend the $100 on a new set because it is a lot of fiddling to clean and test. i don't regret taking them apart, but i do get a bit of clatter.
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[Bassyaks]

throw some Marvel mystry oil in there once in a while , it'll keep the internals clean, or do it just before an oil change.