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Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System?
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sjhotz
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

I have been thinking about using my Bus to tow my Thing!

I will have plenty of power to climb hills once my engine is in, my concern is braking. I have been looking at various Supplemental Braking Systems and there are some that appear to do a good job of synchronized braking using a dead pedal. Direct & Proportional systems to be specific.

Has anyone had any experience with using these systems? Am I crazy for considering it?

My thanks,
-sjhotz
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

Are you flat towing, towing with a tow dolly, or towing with a trailer? Lots of trailers have electronic braking with an adjustable brake controller in the tow vehicle where others have a hydraulic system with a master cylinder on the tongue of the trailer.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

How far, how frequently, and at what speed will you be towing?

A surge brake is usually the best solution, if it is indicated.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

A short tow across town on slow surface street to drop it off somewhere is probably not going to be a headache. Towing on the highway would be nuts. I pulled a 2000 pound boat once from Upland to Lake Havasu with my 1971 bus. Never again. Every small hill 2nd gear. It was early in the morning like 5am so there weren't many cars or trucks out, Thank the Lord. We left the boat in a storage yard and came back with a V8 to get at the end of the season. Pulling it a couple miles to a boat dealer etc was no hassle but beyond that bus engines - even a 2L isn't made for it at freeway speeds - like going out to the desert etc to play. What makes it worse is you will have passengers and camping gear etc with you too. That is my 2 cents worth.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

Last year I towed my Thing with my '78 Bus (with TDI motor) to a campout. About a three hour drive total.

I used my tow dolly last year. This year, if I have the time to modify it, I plan to flat tow the Thing using a tow bar I will modify to hook to the front axle. Mostly because I would like to have a few hundred less pounds to pull, and with the front end not being up in the air, I figure it'll be a little bit less of a drag.

I had a few supplies and a little bit of firewood in the Thing (using it as a bit of a trailer).

With careful driving (watching following distances and all that) I felt comfortable with the Bus' brakes ability to stop everything, which is your main question.

I have no top on it at all, and the doors were left at home to save a little weight.

With a stock engine, such things have been done but I'd sure take it easy!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

Quote:
(with TDI motor) to a campout


different animal but a very wise decision if you plan to pull loads like that. Water cooling is more efficient than air at maintaining a steady temperature on parts. Make sure the trans gets adequate cooling too. Paul had to build put oiler sprayers into his manual trans to keep the gears cool.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

For the readership, sjhotz will have a Raby-built Subaru engine in his bus sometime soon. So puling power isn't the problem. Braking and suspension will need to be addressed, hence this thread.

Soon, right??? Laughing

Robbie
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

Well then, my experience is that the Bus' braking system can handle a stripped down Thing with tow dolly. You just have to be careful to mind the following distances and all that. If you have some sort of add-on braking system then it should really be fine.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

my bus handled the 2,000 pound boat as to stopping and sway without any issues. Have to know how to load weight to avoid the swaying or jack-knife. You really will want about 200 HP+ and a strong trans to pull the weight long distances. Less that that and it will be a struggle at times if hills are involved.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

Robbie is correct! A Raby Built Subi is in the works, hence the questions. Power will not be an issue, and i'll be flat towing with a tow bar so no tongue weight. It is only stopping power I am concerned about, and the supplementary dead pedal proportional braking systems seem perfect for my needs.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

Most every state will require trailer brakes on a 2000 pound tow load, with s few exceptions. Note if you tow into a state with tighter regulations than home, you can be ticketed for non-compliance.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

sjhotz wrote:
Robbie is correct! A Raby Built Subi is in the works, hence the questions. Power will not be an issue, and i'll be flat towing with a tow bar so no tongue weight. It is only stopping power I am concerned about, and the supplementary dead pedal proportional braking systems seem perfect for my needs.

Sounds like the simplest and most effective way to do it to me, it uses all 4 wheels and requires no additional plumbing on the towed vehicle.
https://www.etrailer.com/faq-tow-bar-braking.aspx
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

Wikipedia says a Thing's curb weight is 2006 lbs.

Since mine doesn't have a top or windows installed, I should be just under.

Even better without the doors!

Whew!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

vwwestyman wrote:
Wikipedia says a Thing's curb weight is 2006 lbs.

Since mine doesn't have a top or windows installed, I should be just under.

Even better without the doors!

Whew!


My state requires brakes for 1000 pounds or more unladen trailers or more than 3000 gross trailer weight. If you get it under 2000 pounds gross in KS you don't even have to register it!!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

Those brake systems are $1k and up... worth it if you are full-time towing like the diesel RV's do. But I question how often you are really going to be doing this... Seems like a lot of hassle to drag a small vehicle around with a slightly larger vehicle, to what end exactly. Trailer towing ups the white knuckle factor even if you have a good engine and brakes. IMHO when I'm camping with the Westy the compactness and ease of setup and breakdown is part of the joy... I don't need a smaller vehicle to go into town, dropping the top takes just a few minutes and I'm ready. Sometimes I do think about towing a motorcycle though, just as a toy.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? Reply with quote

WhirledTraveller wrote:
Those brake systems are $1k and up... worth it if you are full-time towing like the diesel RV's do. But I question how often you are really going to be doing this... Seems like a lot of hassle to drag a small vehicle around with a slightly larger vehicle, to what end exactly. Trailer towing ups the white knuckle factor even if you have a good engine and brakes. IMHO when I'm camping with the Westy the compactness and ease of setup and breakdown is part of the joy... I don't need a smaller vehicle to go into town, dropping the top takes just a few minutes and I'm ready. Sometimes I do think about towing a motorcycle though, just as a toy.


Probably 1k installed, for the DIY

TieDown disc hubs pair, $300
Titan surge coupler $100
Mscl $100

Long afternoon to put it on.
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