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sjhotz Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2007 Posts: 468
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:24 pm Post subject: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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I have been thinking about using my Bus to tow my Thing!
I will have plenty of power to climb hills once my engine is in, my concern is braking. I have been looking at various Supplemental Braking Systems and there are some that appear to do a good job of synchronized braking using a dead pedal. Direct & Proportional systems to be specific.
Has anyone had any experience with using these systems? Am I crazy for considering it?
My thanks,
-sjhotz _________________ BAY PRIDE!
74 Thing
72 Bay Window Westy TinTop |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12815 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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Are you flat towing, towing with a tow dolly, or towing with a trailer? Lots of trailers have electronic braking with an adjustable brake controller in the tow vehicle where others have a hydraulic system with a master cylinder on the tongue of the trailer. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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How far, how frequently, and at what speed will you be towing?
A surge brake is usually the best solution, if it is indicated. _________________ .ssS! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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A short tow across town on slow surface street to drop it off somewhere is probably not going to be a headache. Towing on the highway would be nuts. I pulled a 2000 pound boat once from Upland to Lake Havasu with my 1971 bus. Never again. Every small hill 2nd gear. It was early in the morning like 5am so there weren't many cars or trucks out, Thank the Lord. We left the boat in a storage yard and came back with a V8 to get at the end of the season. Pulling it a couple miles to a boat dealer etc was no hassle but beyond that bus engines - even a 2L isn't made for it at freeway speeds - like going out to the desert etc to play. What makes it worse is you will have passengers and camping gear etc with you too. That is my 2 cents worth. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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Last year I towed my Thing with my '78 Bus (with TDI motor) to a campout. About a three hour drive total.
I used my tow dolly last year. This year, if I have the time to modify it, I plan to flat tow the Thing using a tow bar I will modify to hook to the front axle. Mostly because I would like to have a few hundred less pounds to pull, and with the front end not being up in the air, I figure it'll be a little bit less of a drag.
I had a few supplies and a little bit of firewood in the Thing (using it as a bit of a trailer).
With careful driving (watching following distances and all that) I felt comfortable with the Bus' brakes ability to stop everything, which is your main question.
I have no top on it at all, and the doors were left at home to save a little weight.
With a stock engine, such things have been done but I'd sure take it easy! _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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Quote: |
(with TDI motor) to a campout |
different animal but a very wise decision if you plan to pull loads like that. Water cooling is more efficient than air at maintaining a steady temperature on parts. Make sure the trans gets adequate cooling too. Paul had to build put oiler sprayers into his manual trans to keep the gears cool. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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For the readership, sjhotz will have a Raby-built Subaru engine in his bus sometime soon. So puling power isn't the problem. Braking and suspension will need to be addressed, hence this thread.
Soon, right???
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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Well then, my experience is that the Bus' braking system can handle a stripped down Thing with tow dolly. You just have to be careful to mind the following distances and all that. If you have some sort of add-on braking system then it should really be fine. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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my bus handled the 2,000 pound boat as to stopping and sway without any issues. Have to know how to load weight to avoid the swaying or jack-knife. You really will want about 200 HP+ and a strong trans to pull the weight long distances. Less that that and it will be a struggle at times if hills are involved. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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sjhotz Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2007 Posts: 468
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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Robbie is correct! A Raby Built Subi is in the works, hence the questions. Power will not be an issue, and i'll be flat towing with a tow bar so no tongue weight. It is only stopping power I am concerned about, and the supplementary dead pedal proportional braking systems seem perfect for my needs. _________________ BAY PRIDE!
74 Thing
72 Bay Window Westy TinTop |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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Most every state will require trailer brakes on a 2000 pound tow load, with s few exceptions. Note if you tow into a state with tighter regulations than home, you can be ticketed for non-compliance. _________________ .ssS! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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sjhotz wrote: |
Robbie is correct! A Raby Built Subi is in the works, hence the questions. Power will not be an issue, and i'll be flat towing with a tow bar so no tongue weight. It is only stopping power I am concerned about, and the supplementary dead pedal proportional braking systems seem perfect for my needs. |
Sounds like the simplest and most effective way to do it to me, it uses all 4 wheels and requires no additional plumbing on the towed vehicle.
https://www.etrailer.com/faq-tow-bar-braking.aspx _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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vwwestyman wrote: |
Wikipedia says a Thing's curb weight is 2006 lbs.
Since mine doesn't have a top or windows installed, I should be just under.
Even better without the doors!
Whew! |
My state requires brakes for 1000 pounds or more unladen trailers or more than 3000 gross trailer weight. If you get it under 2000 pounds gross in KS you don't even have to register it!! _________________ .ssS! |
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WhirledTraveller Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2008 Posts: 1399 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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Those brake systems are $1k and up... worth it if you are full-time towing like the diesel RV's do. But I question how often you are really going to be doing this... Seems like a lot of hassle to drag a small vehicle around with a slightly larger vehicle, to what end exactly. Trailer towing ups the white knuckle factor even if you have a good engine and brakes. IMHO when I'm camping with the Westy the compactness and ease of setup and breakdown is part of the joy... I don't need a smaller vehicle to go into town, dropping the top takes just a few minutes and I'm ready. Sometimes I do think about towing a motorcycle though, just as a toy. _________________ 1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Using my Bus to tow my Thing with a Supplemental Braking System? |
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WhirledTraveller wrote: |
Those brake systems are $1k and up... worth it if you are full-time towing like the diesel RV's do. But I question how often you are really going to be doing this... Seems like a lot of hassle to drag a small vehicle around with a slightly larger vehicle, to what end exactly. Trailer towing ups the white knuckle factor even if you have a good engine and brakes. IMHO when I'm camping with the Westy the compactness and ease of setup and breakdown is part of the joy... I don't need a smaller vehicle to go into town, dropping the top takes just a few minutes and I'm ready. Sometimes I do think about towing a motorcycle though, just as a toy. |
Probably 1k installed, for the DIY
TieDown disc hubs pair, $300
Titan surge coupler $100
Mscl $100
Long afternoon to put it on. _________________ .ssS! |
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