Concerns on my 87 GL 4spd manual Subaru conversion (2.5)

[Deedee22]

It's' been a long journey, took over a year and finally my van is back with the Subaru 2.5 conversion. I'm not sure how much detail I should go into here, but let's just say the process did not go smoothly at all. Ended up having to rebuild the transmission after the mechanic ran it with no fluid, etc etc. The whole process almost cured me of my vanagon fever, and now that I have it back I'm still not convinced. There's less joy but I'm hoping that not all is lost...

1. The gas pedal is really stiff. The engine is from a 2007 Legacy. There's a delay from pushing the gas pedal to actually getting the power and so starting out is always this moment of overreving and and even shifting into second gear can be rough too. Is there a way to cure this? I'd say the main issue is how stiff the gas pedal is. I asked my mechanic about it and he said there's nothing we can do. Is this true? I used to love driving my Van with the old engine. Going into first gear was such a pleasure. Like a boat, it was so intuitive and fun. This thing isn't fun at all, I'm stressing everytime I go from stop, and starting on hills is really hard. suppose I'll get used to it, but I don't want to get used to it, I want to love the thing, or atleast not swear under my breath every time. My wife doesn't even want to drive the thing.
2. I'm really surprised at how fast I'm into 4th gear, and once on the highway I'm past 3k RPM at 60mph. I had sort of thought that I'd be sailing away on a cloud at 70 mph, but with this I'm at 4000 RPM, and when I let off the gas you feel the engine slow very quickly. I assume that I'll have a lot more power on hills compared to the last one, but I thought I'd be driving in the 70s much easier as well. Definitely not the case here. Is that also something I can address? Should I have words with my mechanic about that, or is it reflective of him not doing an awesome job?
3. I tried turning on the ventilation for air and nothing is coming out. Is this normal in a Subaru conversion? I feel some air coming out at my shins but nothing coming out of the main vents. I'm assuming my AC is completely gone. Is that true or is it possible to rescue it?

I appreciate the help/info. I'm starting to wish I just rebuilt the old engine for a fraction of the price, because if this thing isn't fun to drive around like before it isn't worth it. I have a whole bunch of other questions as well, but I'll save those for later.

Thanks!

Dave

[MarkWard]

The transmission does not know what engine is there. So without rehearing, rpms will be identical. In other words if the WBX engine was turning 4000 rpm at 70, so will the Subaru engine. More power gets you to 70 quicker. More power will let you run taller gears on an incline.

As far as the accelerator. Is it still using a cable or is it now
flybywire? That will make a difference on how you troubleshoot it.
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[Wildthings]

Pictures of how your throttle cable is attached to your throttle body would help.

[Ahwahnee]

Too light a throttle can be almost as annoying as too stiff - but if it is mechanical you should be able to find that 'sweet spot' you had before. I'd be looking at where it might be binding. As suggested a photo will help - then it may be a matter of disconnecting at various points to see just what is making it stiff.

High RPMs are not necessarily engine killers but I understand it feels better to cruise at a lower number. At least you now have to power to allow larger tires which help a bit. Re-gearing or adding an over-driven 5-speed, unfortunately, means $$$ & mechanics and it sounds like you may have had enough of that for now.

Did you have working AC before? What was the plan with the mechanic?

[dobryan]

I love my EJ25.

That rpm is just fine with that engine. I cruise control mine at 70-72mph (about 3900-4000 rpm) all day long (like 12 hours and more), and then all day long the next day. We do some long traveling. Many folks think they should be at lower rpm's and feel that they are over revving the Subie but it is very happy at that rpm range. I run mine at 5000 rpm in the mountains in third when I am in the rockies on the steeper twisty passes. Here in the appalachians I have enough torque to get over almost anything in 4th gear as long as I can keep above 3500 rpm. Just did it yesterday towing 1000 lbs. Do not be scared of 4000 rpm's.

The front ventilation system has no connection to the engine conversion. It should work exactly like it did before. The owners manual does a decent explanation of the really unintuitive controls.

We are here to help. You'll get it working well.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Wildthings]

[[email protected]]

Go Westy has a primer on your ventilation system, it can be confusing untill you figure it out. See their technical section. Throttle should be smooth, not hard to push. Have someone operate the pedal while you are in the back checking the linkage for smooth operation. Are ypu havind a issue with how your clutch ingages ae well? Maybe you have someone local who can drive your van to see how it feels to them?

[WillSharp]

Many people will opt for a 0.82 taller 4th gear when doing a 2.5L subie conversion to bring RPMs down. A taller 3rd and 4th can also be done to really make a difference. This would of course require pulling the trans. out and having a shop put new gears in which would be a bit expensive.

A cheaper easier small solution may be upgrading to bigger tires (if you haven't already) This will give you a little bit more speed without any major service. However its not gonna make your van do 70mph at 2k RPMs.

Just a couple thoughts. Good luck!

[dlb154]

[Deedee22]

Thanks for all the responses. Yes this is a flybywire system, which I believe converts to electric at the actual engine? I'll take some photos, it definitely feels like there's friction in the pedal, as opposed to the lever that's on the engine, which is stiff but smooth. Almost as bad is the delay from when pushing the gas. Not sure if that's from the actual stiffiness or something else, but I'm guessing by the responses that it's not a typical characteristic of the suby conversion?

Sounds like I'll plan on the bigger wheels to see if that helps the RPM issue since I was planning on doing that at some point anyways. Would 16 inch be much better than 15 inch in that case, or does it even matter? I know that 17 inch is a possibility as well, if it does I'd consider it but I don't feel a need to go super big.

The AC wasn't working before I had the conversion, but was was thinking about getting it fixed at some point, but not sure if that's even possible now that I"ve converted engines.

[dlb154]

Yes having working air conditioning is an option with your Subaru conversion. You need to mate the Subaru Compressor with the rest of the Vanagon components. Can be a simply as having connections between hoses and compressor modified and then going through the typical flush, new dryer, vacuum pump down, charge up system. Or it can be more involved with full replacement of hoses (the better option but more labor/parts/money).

[dobryan]

Do not confuse rim size with final tire diameter. The metal rim does not determine final tire radius size.

I have had a tranny with a taller fouth and third as was mentioned and it gave away the advantages of the EJ25 Please take my expensive experience to heart and just rev the sucker to 4-5000 and do not look back. Really! 👍😀

I am currently running 205/70/15 tires which are like 3% over stock and love the power.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Deedee22]

[Wildthings]

[Gizmoman]

Please don't take this the wrong way but in reading your post, it sounds like you didn't do a lot of research before doing the swap. I also get the feeling you used a shop that doesn't do subi/vanagon swaps as a mainstay - there are many recommended shops listed here on the Samba that would have given you a better out-the-door feeling, not a "nothing we can do" attitude.

If the van had AC before and you didn't specify you wanted to have AC after, there's a good chance they didn't do the extra work required to hook it up. Again, a sign you didn't do enough research or clearly communicate with the mechanic.
As you are finding out, a somewhat modern engine swap into a 30+ year old vehicle is a huge undertaking and many things must be considered before stepping into it. This site as well as several others have huge amounts of information regarding engine swaps, what to expect and what to consider. Transmission ratios, tire sizes, AC, where you drive, what you carry/tow, or do with your van, etc.
I highly recommend you limp it over to one of these shops for their opinion and be sure to let them know your needs as clearly as possible;
http://www.rockymountainwesty.com/Vanagon_Subaru_C...Am-s8P8HAQ
https://smallcar.com/conversions/faq-for-vanagon-conversions.html. I'm sure there are several others that do solid work as well - just be sure they do swaps on a regular basis and have a good reputation - another thing to research.

Sounds like you have a good engine, a solid van, and a rebuilt transaxle. A good shop should be able to get the love back.
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82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale).

[dobryan]

[MarkWard]

Ok, fly by wire does make a difference in how to tell you how it should feel and where to look. After a certain year, many manufacturers used and all in one flybywire accel pedal. Here is a picture of mine. It is mounted in the driver's foot well and has been cut down to work with the Vanagon gas pedal. No cables, relay levers, or monkey action required. The pedal tension is from the spring in the unit itself.

Not knowing your configuration, they may have mounted the pedal/potentiometer under the van or in the engine compartment. They are then using the vanagon accel cable to operate the mechanism. Without the correct amount of leverage, I expect the pedal could be difficult to operate. they are designed to have your foot press down on them. I googled some images of the Subaru accel pedal and it does look similar to my vw one.
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[Jon_slider]

[wasserbox]

[Wildthings]