Glowing alternator light tonight! Fixed!!!

[vwkirb]

[sjbartnik]

Based on your infrequent use of the car and short trips, you may wish to consider putting the car on a Battery Tender when it sits. This will keep the battery topped up. It's natural for any battery to discharge slowly as it sits and with your short trip driving, you may not be running the engine enough to keep the battery topped off.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[rayvwbug]

[Tim Donahoe]

The battery is an Autozone, a normal group 42. I bought it in January of 2013, so it's a little over 4 and 1/2 years old.

I've always kept the water level up in it, and have never let the level drop so that the tops of the plates were exposed. Actually, when filling, I've only had to put very small amounts of distilled water in the cells to maintain a proper level.

I just now tested the battery at rest, after it had been sitting since yesterday afternoon. The reading was a healthy 12.74. So, it seems that it will maintain a healthy charge.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[rockerarm]

[rayvwbug]

This test is such a great idea. So simple to do and yields very meaningful results. Thanks again for saving me the time of testing every possible site of a voltage drop!!

[Tim Donahoe]

Well, I've had a little time, so I got back into this. First, I had Interstate do their 3-point test on my battery. It's in great shape. So the battery is fine.

A few questions, though.

My internally-regulated alternator has the small push-on wire that goes to the idiot light. Okay, I have no issues with that. Additionally, the threaded B+ post has two wires attached to it. One is the big solid red wire that goes--one way or the other--to charge up my battery. And one is a much smaller black 16 or 18 gauge wire, which I repaired since the connection seemed a bit shady. What is this small black wire on the B+ post for? Is it for the old diognostic system? Or what?

Also, from the harness sheath, there are two smaller wires--one green and one brown--that have been cut off and left hanging. I'm not worried about these two because the car has been running and charging well for almost five years without these them. But that black one at the B+ post has me stumped.

Aside from the questions, I have other news. When testing with the engine running at the battery, I get 13.28 ... but if I test at the alternator, I get 13.68 to 13.80. So this leads me to believe that I have a wiring issue from the big red wire at the B+ post on the alternator to the battery. Anyone know where the big red wire from the alternator connects it's way to the battery? I've looked at my wiring diagram and the wire colors don't line up, so I'm stumped. If I can find where that alternator wire connects, I might solve the issue.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[rockerarm]

Hi. The small black wire is in deed for the old diagnostic plug, orange dot #14. The current schematic references this, and you could verify with an ohm meter as it shows the terminal number.

Regarding your voltage differences you the same schematic shows the B+ from the alternator (C) traveling to a white multi-plug (Ta) under the rear seat, left side. From there the B+ wire branches off to the battery (A) and to the front of the car to feed fuses S8/S9 etc.
You should really perform a voltage drop test on a few of these sub circuits such as Alt B+ to Battery positive and/or to the Ta multi-plug.
Not to beat you up over your diagnostics but with the different voltages you obtained at the battery and the alternator, can you be absolutely sure your ground was the same and didn't influence your readings? This is why the voltage drop test beats the shit out of the old school testing.

Here is the schematic for you to use:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/74-up113wiring.jpg
And the key for above:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/74-up113-key.jpg

[VW_Jimbo]

You could always take a piece of 10 gauge wire. Connect it to the alternator B+ terminal and then attach the other end to the battery positive. Then retest your output voltage. If you have eliminated the negative side, the fan belt and the idiot light, then you are onto the battery supply line. Throw that jumper in and retest, before replacing.

Are your battery terminals clean inside and out? Sometimes corrosion at the interior of the battery clamp connector can cause low readings.

Double check that belt tension.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Tim Donahoe]

Thanks rockerarm and jimbo.

I can actually read the colored wiring diagram in the link rocker provided.

Apparently, after the Ta, the positive wire going to the battery, first goes through a battery lock off switch that I installed a few years ago (I installed this cut-off switch for security and go I could cut off power to work on electrical issues without having to remove the back seat).

I'm going to check out this switch for loose connections in the morning when it's not 104 degrees in the garage. I'm also going to try jimbo's 10-gauge-jumper idea.

To be honest, I don't know what the circuit 61 is. So, checking it out presents an issue. Thus, I keep doing things in an "old-school" manner. I am also ignorant as to what a "voltage-drop" test is, although it seems that I'd just go from connection to connection to see if the voltage drops before entering the battery + terminal.

My schematic reading is about 60%. Although, the colored schematic provided makes things far easier for me to comprehend.

First thing in the morning, I'm going to test the red/white wire from the Ta to the battery cut-off switch. If that's the culprit, I'm going to be pissed. I paid big bucks for that keyed wonder.

Thanks again, guys. I'm off to Google some electrical terms. Learning is a good thing.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[VW_Jimbo]

My money is on the switch dropping voltage! All switches drop a tenth ot two or five, but when they get some carbon going - whoaaaa! I have measured drops as large as 50 volts in house circuits. In cars, 6 to 7 volts! Both due to the same reasons - cheap manufacturing, age and low grade materials.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Chochobeef]

[rockerarm]

[rockerarm]

Hi. This youtube video shows the basic concept of voltage drop testing while circuits are under a load, or operating. It shows the testing of a complete circuit and its sub-circuits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMXENKujYtc

There are many good videos on this practice and Daniel Sullivan has numerous videos.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[Tim Donahoe]

This is a little off topic, but maybe not. Why would I get a volt reading across my battery terminals when my multimeter is set to Alternating Current? I should get no reading at all, right? Doesn't an alternator turn alternating current into direct current? Why would I get any alternating current?

Edit: apparently, my inexpensive multimeter can't measure ac volts correctly on an automobile. Now, on to jumping and voltage drop.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[Tim Donahoe]

After much voltage drop testing and whatnot, I came to the obvious conclusion that my alternator simply needed replacement. I just got a New Mexican-made Bosch AL82N in the mail from Cipi1. It cost $189.00 total (no tax or shipping charge--who-hoo).

Anyway, I just watched an alternator conversion video on YouTube by Joel from Australia. He wired the two upper alternator posts the way you might imagine, but he also wired up a ground wire to the screw on the upper left side of the new alternator. So this leaves me wondering.

Does the alternator have to be separately grounded by this screw? I thought the alternator was already grounded by the oil-filler stand, and didn't require a separate ground. But since it was Joel--a guy who has a lot of experience with such things--I have to stop and think why he did this.

After all, my engine has been running for over four years without a separate ground wire attached to the old alternator, so is this really necessary? Or is it just extra insurance that's not really required.

Joel, if you're reading this, tell me why you did what you did? All others may chime in, too.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[rockerarm]

Hi. Don't know why Joel ran an additional ground but it wouldn't cause any additional concern. Possibly OCD about grounding .
You got it correct with the alt/gen clamped to the stand, bolted to the case, bolted to the trans, with a trans to chassis ground strap.
Good luck on your install.

Were you able to resolve any voltage drop from the alt's B+ to the battery positive terminal?

[Tim Donahoe]

Rocker, I got so many different results; although I have checked my multimeter against another, more expensive unit, and mine is accurate.

At times, there would be a voltage drop from B+, but at other times, there wasn't.

I did check the three big wires going into the Ta junction, and all three were fine. The same voltage coming and going to these were the same as at the B+ post. While checking these, I also connected the multimeter to a different ground than the battery post. No change in readings. The small red wire in Ta was for my defrost, so I didn't test that wire because my grids are shot, anyway. And one of the wires goes to the diognostic port, so I skipped that too. I may just remove it.

I also squirted some DeOxit into Ta and pulled out the connections. They looked great.

The alternator started showing readings that were in the low 12's. The following day, they were up to 13.68. Later in the day: 12.33. So, I went for changing the alternator. When I get my old one out, I'm going to have it refurbished here in town for ... A rainy day. It's a Bosch, too.

My transmission ground looked suspect, so I decided to buy that ground strap, as well as a new negative battery strap just because these are two items I haven't replaced or restored on the car. And also because the two new ones I just got in the mail from Bughaus are nice and shiny copper straps from Germany. Whoo-hoo!

Since I'm pulling the engine, and I'm in the mood for spending, I ordered a Hoover bit from Awesomepowdercoat.com. That was a week ago, but it was just mailed today. My oil temps are fine, but a Hoover bit won't hurt, and might even reduce the temps even more. Why not?

I'm also repainting the rear breast plate and fan shroud. I have a new emission sticker I got from the Samba Classifieds, so it's going to be nice when done. And maybe ... I'll repaint the muffler with some gray VHT.

This Saturday, it'll be 114 here in Redding, so morning work only for a while.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[VW_Jimbo]

[rockerarm]