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Steve2150
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2016
Posts: 36
Location: Punta Gorda
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 Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: Engine Problems |
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| Have a 72 standard Beetle, fully restored. A year ago bought a new 1600 motor from Fisher Buggies that we installed about 4 months after getting it as we were finishing the car, new front axle, shocks, front disc brakes, new rear brakes and drums, all new wheel cylinders and master cylinder, clutch, tires, wheels, weather strip, drive axles, tie rods, steering gear, etc and from day one the motor gave problems, the valves on cylinder 3 kept loosing clearance and you could hear them, we replaced the original adjusters on all valves with hardened ones as the originals were soft and worn, we replaced the original aluminum pushrods with steel rods as it looked like #3 had a slight bend. But #3 cylinder only holds for about 200 miles and then starts tapping again, we are gonna check to see if the new pushrod is okay. Any ideas would be appreciated, it seems they built the motor with inferior parts. This was a new motor not a rebuilt. Someone I was talking to said it might be the cam lobe rounded. Ideas and comment appreciated. |
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vwjetboat
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2017
Posts: 1732
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| you can check the valve lift to see if cam lobe is the issue by turning the motor over and measuring it.. have check the head bolts ? are they pulling out of case ? |
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joey1320
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006
Posts: 2325
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Steve2150
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2016
Posts: 36
Location: Punta Gorda
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| 6 months warranty on the engine, if I had to do it again I would have gotten it somewhere else. From day one had the valve problem and I thought it was just because break in. Did notice on my oil changes metal flakes, motor has about 1700 miles |
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vwjetboat
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2017
Posts: 1732
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| joey1320 wrote: |
| Is there some type of warranty for a brand new engine?? |
you would think there is .. but once he opened the engine up and changed things.. it voided any warranty and waited 4 months to put in.. Neighbor just had a used junk yard engine installed in jeep.. they gave her 10 days from delivery of engine to prove to them it was installed and running to give her a 1 year warranty.. |
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vwjetboat
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2017
Posts: 1732
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| Steve2150 wrote: |
| 6 months warranty on the engine, if I had to do it again I would have gotten it somewhere else. From day one had the valve problem and I thought it was just because break in. Did notice on my oil changes metal flakes, motor has about 1700 miles |
If they wont warranty it.. stop driving it.. pull it take apart find the issue and repair so all of your money is not wasted... the more you drive it.. the more money its going to cost.. try to save what is still savable |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| Steve2150 wrote: |
| ... from day one the motor gave problems, the valves on cylinder 3 kept loosing clearance and you could hear them |
Does this mean the valve gap is closing up? Wouldn't this mean the valve could go from noisy (tapping) not noiseless (no longer tapping because there is no gap).
A common problem with new engines is for the valve seats to sink deeper into the heads. This is a sign they were not properly pressed into the head in the first place. By sinking deeper into the head the initial gap at the valve adjusters closes over time.
| Steve2150 wrote: |
| we replaced the original adjusters on all valves with hardened ones as the originals were soft and worn, we replaced the original aluminum pushrods with steel rods as it looked like #3 had a slight bend. |
Both of these conditions will INCREASE the gap between the the valve and the adjuster. This is opposite of "loosing clearance", but this WILL result in "noisy valves" as the adjuster gap increases.
| Steve2150 wrote: |
| But #3 cylinder only holds for about 200 miles and then starts tapping again, we are gonna check to see if the new pushrod is okay. |
Take the rocker arm assembly off the head and check if the valve retainers all line up at the same level.
A properly built head will have all the valve seats cut to the same depth. This results in all valve retainers sitting at the same height. If the valves are not at the same height it is not a show stopper, but it is an indication of the quality of the head. Also, it will be impossible to set the proper valve geometry for all the valves since the correct rocker height will be different for each valve. When the seats are properly cut and all valve retainers are the same height you can establish one rocker arm height that works for all valves.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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PopPop Jambon
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2016
Posts: 125
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:09 am Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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Have you discussed the issue with Fisher Buggies? I have done business with them on several occasions and they have been very helpful. They probably wont honor the warranty at this point but they may be willing to help in some way.
_________________
Eric
VWLM
1968 Beetle 1600 DP
Sort of a Baja
(PO removed the deck lid, cut out the rear skirt and added rear fiberglass fenders, that's about it) |
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Keithinky
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2014
Posts: 435
Location: Bradenton, FL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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Sorry to hear this.
(Following this thread) |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| was it properly broken in? many of engines&cams have bit the dirt by not being broken in correctly. if the adjusters were soft it probably wasent a "new" engine. just because something looks new dosent mean it's new or orignal oe manufactured. there are many engines that can be built new without any oe manufactures parts. bad? good? depends on a lot of things. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| was it properly broken in? many of engines&cams have bit the dirt by not being broken in correctly. if the adjusters were soft it probably wasent a "new" engine. just because something looks new dosent mean it's new or orignal oe manufactured. there are many engines that can be built new without any oe manufactures parts. bad? good? depends on a lot of things. |
That's helpful.  |
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Bashr52
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5666
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| IF the cam was going flat you would have issues with both #1 and #3 since they share lobes. If it's limited to an issue with #3, it's a head issue, pushrod failing, bad adjusters, lifter going bad etc on just that side. |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| mark tucker wrote: |
| was it properly broken in? many of engines&cams have bit the dirt by not being broken in correctly. if the adjusters were soft it probably wasent a "new" engine. just because something looks new dosent mean it's new or orignal oe manufactured. there are many engines that can be built new without any oe manufactures parts. bad? good? depends on a lot of things. |
That's helpful. |
Looks like he tried to spell everything correctly though.  |
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9969
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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I vote that you first communicate with the builder and see what and if they are willing to help out! That is the easiest path! If that fails, you could drive it and hope it clears. (fingers crossed)
Could it possibly be a lack of oil flow through the push rods? If you remove the valve cover, tape newspaper or plastic on the interior of the fender, then have someone start the car. Oil is going to fly all over the place, so wear safety googles! You should see oil flinging out of the rocker arm assembly on the affected cylinder. If you see no oil exiting, or a large quanity in difference, when compared to the adjacent cylinder, you may have a lack of lubrication. In which case, anything could be taking place!
If you find the quantity lacking, you could run a 50/50 mix of ATF and diesel fuel for a few minutes to try and clean it up. Run it longer than that at your own risk. Change back to normal oil after that rinse, run it for 15 minutes and change the oil again. Then again in 100 miles. Then back to your typical regiment.
Sometimes that diesel fuel trick works and sometimes it aggravates a hidden issue and brings it to the surface. Be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Engine Problems |
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| I'd really think about runnng any motor cleaning solvent through a VW engine. From personal experience I ruined a 40 hp engine by using Rislone as directed. It knocked all the sludge loose plugged oil galleys and caused a lock up within less than 25 miles. Only clue was I smell something funny and I seem to be losing power, then the big noise followed by seize. If you think it's not oiling remove and blow air through pushrods also take rockers off shaft and blow through those tiny holes as well. Just advice from school of hard knocks. |
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