Opinions Wanted-Which years?

[JackStraw72]

My family and I want a bus for roadtrips/family vacations. I've been doing research, reading books, and online research. I am trying to figure out what years I should be looking at. We would like a Westy...we know that. Simplicity and reliability are the goals. I am realistic, I get that breakdowns are inevitable, but being able to fix and get back on the road is expected.

A little background, I am not new to vintage vehicles. I have had many, but I am new to VW's. So far my research has brought me to the following:

I am thinking 1972-1974, because of the simplicity, bigger engine (a little at least), and disc brakes. It seems like staying away from the newer models with fuel injection might be good as it complicates things. Or does it? Again, I have no experience with VW fuel injection.

Fuel injection?
Dual Carbs vs. Single carb?
Any years I should stay away from?

I look forward to your expert input and opinions.
Thanks for your time!

[pioneer1]

Family?- go with the 74-79 with the actual bed up above
_________________
"Always waiting for tomorrow ruined everything"

'85 Porsche 911 Targa

'76 Westfalia project

[jtauxe]

Since you are asking for opinions...

The Berlin layout for the Westfalia camper is the best. No cabinet in front of the door, penthouse bed up top. Those were 1976-1979.

Those years also came with the 2.0-L FI Type IV engine, which is the best. If you can find a good setup with the working FI, that would be the best all around. Don't bother with that engine with a carbureted setup -- it will only disappoint, especially in cold weather.

These are pricey, but they are still the best air-cooled campers ever. The only camper that I would consider as being better than this is a mid-1990 Vanagon Syncro Westy, but those are fetching close to $100k these days.
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[JackStraw72]

I had no idea that before 74 it wasn't a full bed up top. Great info. So all of the rear-flipping tops are smaller up top?

[skills@eurocarsplus]

The year with the least amount of rust
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[Spike0180]

I'm kinda with skills. Find one that has the least rust. All of the engine options are pretty weak (the 2.0 with the 091 transmission is best for highway from what I understand). As far as fixing them, they all have their quirks and difficulties. I haven't worked with the FI System, but apparently it isn't that bad to work with. Either way, most breakdowns in these came down to a vacuum leak, electrical problem, or dirty fuel system. At least that you could fix on the side of the road (Yeah, some will argue cables/cv joints but I don't count those. Too easy to diagnose.).
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
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Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic"

[airschooled]

Skills' answer is rule #1. Rule #2 might be that the cheapest buses are usually the most expensive. There is a "bell curve" of diminishing returns in the middle of vehicles for sale, in any market. What I mean is, the low end rolling chassis with rust and no engine aren't ever worth the cost to get them going. Then there are the buses in the middle, that run and drive but need work, then there are the "restored" buses. I use quotes, because there isn't a single bus for sale over 15k EVER on here that doesn't need 5k in work. I usually see buses around 10k that drive just as well, or better, than people who flip these cars and actually make them drive worse and less safe.

So what I'm saying, is shoot for the upper end of the mid-priced buses and do the finishing stuff yourself. That way you'll have a few grand left to fix what's broken, instead of blowing it on shinier paint that will flake off in two years.

Now in my opinion, the earlier buses are easier to find parts for on a Saturday when you're stranded in Boise City, Oklahoma. The 72-75 original engines are best on the freeways, and the 76+ engines make the best mountain climbers. You could always change the engine yourself, or buy one with a different engine though. The T4 and fuel injection systems cost more to get perfect, but last longer in the long run, so the actual financial cost of ownership is the same.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
Robbie
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[williamM]

Personally I like the 75- Your out of the emissions program, as mentioned- they have disc brakes, simple FI- better crash protection that the early splits. (apples and oranges a bit there)- Lots of up grades for suspension on most all bays. Simple points ignition. solid lifters n choice of cams .

I currently have a 73 with center carb- but living in SW Az. cold weather is not a problem- and a 79 Riviera which while it was mobile was a fun ride- but after discovering it sported a GEX motor with 165# compression and miss matched push rods -it on the list for a new motor.
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[Tumbledown76]

I was on the hunt and in your shoes 2 years ago with some of your same goals in mind, and with a family of 2 little ones under 5, I ended up went with a 79 2.0 FI Riviera (I was looking for 76-79). Apart from those more modern conveniences on a later Bay Bus... it happened to be a ZERO RUST bus, which was the real impetus for buying it. But it also was not cheap. I knew I would have my hands full dealing with everything else.

I just came in from getting my bus inspected, and the owner of the shop said "...with a body like that anything on that bus is worth fixing".

Good luck in your hunt.
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'Camel' - '79 Riviera, 2.0L FI, Dakota Beige

[Tcash]

Welcome to TheSamba, Bay Window Bus Forum!


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[mainstreetprod]

I think you be happiest with a later model, despite the complicated FI. Look all over the forum and you'll find threads suggesting that it be left in place and fixed rather than replaced with a carb. Too bad you only want a Westy as I'm about to sell my '78 bus, which still has it's FI. I'm in northern TN and not that far from you.

[timvw7476]

if you are biased towards '72-'74 keep these in mind:
The engine access door comes in later, helps with general repair/tune ups.
Choose 72-74 if you can handle two carbs & know how they work.
The mechanical fuel pump is the 'weak link', electric pump is 200% better
for hot or cold starts & day in day out usage. Almost like a modern Camry,
if Toyotas came with manually adjusted rear brake shoes & solid lifter engines.
Happy Bus Hunting.

[williamM]

[Wildthings]

If you are in a head-on in a '73 and later model you have a very good chance of walking away from the accident when compared to earlier models.

[JackStraw72]

[williamM]

only the 73/74 factory dual carbs had manual fuel pumps te FI all had elec pumps to run the FI. The electric pumps could spike to 100# if provoked where the carb models had about 4# to 6# pressure and never the two should mix.

The electric replacement for the T-4 Carbed was a universal after market some running as high as 7# and needed a regulator- combined with a fuel shut off they were a good combination.[img]

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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[Tcash]

Welcome to TheSamba!

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[SGKent]

set a budget and run the numbers by the folks here before you buy to be sure that your expectations are realistic. Starting out today to create a fully restored late bay these days to a low mile super reliable condition is like a $30,000 - $40,000 investment. A late Westphalia restored to like new is about $65,000 invested. That is not to say one cannot have a fun bus for a lot less - but be sure your expectations can be met for your budget. Parts are getting scarcer, more expensive and in many situations the quality is troublesome. People who work on them are rarer too. Demand for the buses is there too so prices seem stable.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[sodbuster]

1972 was the first year for the type IV motor in the bus. It was not only the first year for that motor but it was the only year that came with that motor that did not have the top access hatch.

All buses from 1973 on up came with the top hatch. The 68 to 71 buses still had the type I "upright" motor and did nor require a top access hatch.

Another bit of info to arm yourself with is the fact that 1971 is the only model year to come from the factory with the type I upright motor and front disk brakes.

[JackStraw72]

So it sounds like not only are people not scared off by the fuel injection, but it seems like it might be preferred. Sounds like a properly set up and maintained fuel injection system might have more headaches down the road???