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JeeWee
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Garijp, the Netherlands
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 Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:16 am Post subject: Zenith 32NDIX on 1192cc WW Okrasa engine? |
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As I still have issues with my solex 32 PBIC carbs which are already rebuild by Joe, the issue with the mixture screw is still there, and needs to be realigned and bored, which cost money to do so... so my thoughts were why not upgrade to Zenith 32NDIX with 24mm venturi's by using Steffi G his manifolds.
But... the engine is only a 1192, anyhow i have plans to upgrade it later to 72x80 or 83, so thought why not already go for a slightly bigger carb.
For now, the question is, would the carb suit the current 1192cc setup with the WW okrasa heads and WW okrasa cam? Of course it will run, but in which way will the engine run? I love low end torque so will the airspeed drop too much?
Anyone running this setup already?
let me know your thoughts |
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Mr. Okrasa 
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 726
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Zenith 32NDIX on 1192cc WW Okrasa engine? |
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| JeeWee wrote: |
As I still have issues with my solex 32 PBIC carbs which are already rebuild by Joe, the issue with the mixture screw is still there,
and needs to be realigned and bored, which cost money to do so... |
There needs to be some clarity here. Are you saying that I did something wrong when I "reworked" your W.West carburetors?
I've must have reworked at least 150-200 W.West carburetors already and this is the first time I'm reading that someone is
"still" having issues!? I'm trying to figure out you knowing that there was a problem (mixture screw needs to be realigned and bored)
with the carburetor(s) from the manufacture, that my reworking them was going to fix a problem that SHOULD have been addressed
by you in the first place before sending me your carburetors? Nowhere in my listing does it say that I would do any other work other
than what is on my listing unless it was bought to my attention.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2030749
Can you please let us know where I failed to repair/fix the mis-aligned mixture screw when it was bought to my attention?
The service repair is not offered in my listing nor has it ever been bought to my attention so this is "new" to me.
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint 
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith 32NDIX on 1192cc WW Okrasa engine? |
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| JeeWee wrote: |
But... the engine is only a 1192, anyhow i have plans to upgrade it later to 72x80 or 83, so thought why not already go for a slightly bigger carb.
For now, the question is, would the carb suit the current 1192cc setup with the WW okrasa heads and WW okrasa cam? Of course it will run, but in which way will the engine run? I love low end torque so will the airspeed drop too much?
Anyone running this setup already?
let me know your thoughts |
ok well it depends on what venturis are currently in your PBIC's. with a quick search I found that the WW carbs are probably supplied with a 25mm venturi where as original okrasa PBIC carbs probaby had 22mm venturis.
what this means is a NDIX with 24 venturis (with a proper tune of course) has the potential to make MORE torque as well as be WAY smoother. ANY time you have individual chokes (venturis) for each cylinder, your tune can be much finer, and the engine will run much smoother..possibly delivering more torque and more power.
I would not be concerned about switching to NDIX's with 24 venturis at all, in fact you will probably be please with the performance increase. You will definitely want to invest in a wideband (o2 sensor) to be able to jet the carbs accordingly. Proper jetting can make a world of different in power, fuel economy, and running temperatures.
anyone who tells you dual single choke carbs are 'better' than dual twin choke carbs has not spent enough time learning how to tune carburetors, or even normally aspirated engine performance theory.
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drive your split. |
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JeeWee
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Garijp, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:42 am Post subject: Re: Zenith 32NDIX on 1192cc WW Okrasa engine? |
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| Mr. Okrasa wrote: |
| JeeWee wrote: |
As I still have issues with my solex 32 PBIC carbs which are already rebuild by Joe, the issue with the mixture screw is still there,
and needs to be realigned and bored, which cost money to do so... |
There needs to be some clarity here. Are you saying that I did something wrong when I "reworked" your W.West carburetors?
I've must have reworked at least 150-200 W.West carburetors already and this is the first time I'm reading that someone is
"still" having issues!? I'm trying to figure out you knowing that there was a problem (mixture screw needs to be realigned and bored)
with the carburetor(s) from the manufacture, that my reworking them was going to fix a problem that SHOULD have been addressed
by you in the first place before sending me your carburetors? Nowhere in my listing does it say that I would do any other work other
than what is on my listing unless it was bought to my attention.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2030749
Can you please let us know where I failed to repair/fix the mis-aligned mixture screw when it was bought to my attention?
The service repair is not offered in my listing nor has it ever been bought to my attention so this is "new" to me. |
Hi Joe, I do understand your reaction. I am sorry for writing this in this way as it might be understood incorrectly. The only reason I wrote it is to let people know the carbs already have received the right treatment. Otherwise some might say, hey, send your carbs over to Joe to get it right.
So let me clarify, there is nothing wrong with your rework on the carbs, all the work is done correctly. I have never driven with the 'original' WW carbs, so I can not compare the reworked carb with the original. All the work is done as described. We have swapped the carburettors at VW Classic in 2014, you brought a pair of reworked carbs and I traded in my unused carbs.
Last year I had my engine on the dyno and I have to say I am very proud on the results... 58 SAE hp@4520rpm and 83Nm@3610rpm ... from a 1192, which is a 60% gain on the original engine output!
heads combustion chambers reworked, flowed, also manifolds slightly flowed and matching to the theads, all by myself. Use the later 40hp 77mm domed pistons to raise the compression. Use a WW okrasa camshaft. And not to forget modified an NOS original VW exhaust with 31mm inner diameter tubing from all 4 cylinders (so including the J tubes)
Please be aware we are here in europe, so the fuel is slightly different (but just used our regular pump gas euro 95) and of course the climate is diffent too.
The guy who runs the dyno shop has a wide experience with VW beetle engines as well, as he is also building engines for historic racing, and not beetle only... We only changed the main jet to a 125 as it ran a little to lean on higher RPM's, but at idle it is far too rich. There is no false air. So he came to the conclusion that there is an issue with the idle mixture screw, so we tried to modify that, used 2 other mixture screws but finally I ended up ordering a WW car rebuild kit and tried that mixture screw. It is not fully turned in and still a bit too rich at idle.
after over 3000 miles the fuel consumption is calculated at a 30mpg... and I like to drive it like i stole it. Still running the OG 1956 split case gear box which has a pretty long 4th gear, and the rear tires are 6.00-15 diagonal tires. Will run all day long 60-65mph on the freeway without getting hot, throttle position is then around 50% in normal driving conditions.
So al this above more or less proves that the engine and carbs are good, and that most likely there is something wrong with the casting from WW, but hey, I am not faultless and also the 2 other experienced engine builders might be wrong with their diagnose, so I will take the carbs off and see if there is anything else what might have been overlooked.
So please no hard feelings my friend, you did a great job and I do not see how you could have prevent this during rebuilding the carbs.
But now back on topic... how nice would it be to look at a pair of Zeniths 32NDIX when opening the engine lid... I love the fact that they look like a single barrel carb but they are twin barrels, it is period correct, and will give a bit more OOMPH! But before doing it, I thought let's see if someone already has gone down that road and can share his/her experience on it. This is only the first tuned engine I have put in a car so I am still learning a lot.
any help and advice is highly appreciated |
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JonnySox
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith 32NDIX on 1192cc WW Okrasa engine? |
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Would really like to see what people have found with Zenith carbs. P-11s seem to be a bit too pricey for my taste... looking for someone that builds or sells the manifolds for Zenith carb. Thanks, JONNY
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Looking for Sigla sliders
-1956 Vert
-1956 DD Panel |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7213
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Zenith 32NDIX on 1192cc WW Okrasa engine? |
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| Increase the idle air correction jet to at least 140, I would not be surprised if you need to go closer to 150, but its a trial & error. Go 140 for a start. |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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