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AZ Landshaper
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 1698
Location: The Old Pueblo
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 Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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Yes. Same procedure as the idiots guide. Can u provide a pic of your motor?
A lot of the 80 motor is idiot guide friendly but a lot is not (primarily the fuel injection). Valve adjust is same.
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Support Small Business.
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85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| AZ Landshaper wrote: |
Yes. Same procedure as the idiots guide. Can u provide a pic of your motor?
A lot of the 80 motor is idiot guide friendly but a lot is not (primarily the fuel injection). Valve adjust is same. |
Well, seeing as I do not have the fuel-injection, that's not a problem. Having the after-market weber knock-off carbs is another animal though, I suppose...
Here's a photo of my engine compartment.
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22671
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:22 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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If you have run more than a few minutes without oil you probably have both piston and bottom end bearing damage
There is no use poking around up top and thinking about it, that engine needs to come out and be sorted out
You should have the actual compression numbers from the garage per cylinder, not some vague description of the compression.
A cut corners rebuild is going to be over 2k so you need to sell or get it to a safe house and get work to get it done
No machine shops ? Get it out of that garage, too
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| Abscate wrote: |
If you have run more than a few minutes without oil you probably have both piston and bottom end bearing damage
There is no use poking around up top and thinking about it, that engine needs to come out and be sorted out
You should have the actual compression numbers from the garage per cylinder, not some vague description of the compression.
A cut corners rebuild is going to be over 2k so you need to sell or get it to a safe house and get work to get it done
No machine shops ? Get it out of that garage, too |
Thanks,
It wasn't completely out of oil. I put in about 2 quarts and that brought it back up between the 'full' marks. |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| AZ Landshaper wrote: |
Yes. Same procedure as the idiots guide. Can u provide a pic of your motor?
A lot of the 80 motor is idiot guide friendly but a lot is not (primarily the fuel injection). Valve adjust is same. |
ONe thing I am very confused about it you or anyone can clue me in is isn't there supposed to be timing notches on the crankshaft pulley? I cannot find them or see where they are. It offers various instuctions in th eMuir book for finding TDC, but I have trouble making much sense of them in terms of what I am looking at on my own engine.
Another thing I am wondering is if I can use the nut in the center of the crankshaft pulley for turning the engine. I have been turning it just with my hands, which I guess is fine, but it turns a little hard in spots and it'd be nice if there was an easier way. |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| Another question that comes up for me if anyone can answer is, if I replace one head for a burnt valve, do I need to do the other as well? |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22671
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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That's good news you can turn it over ny hand.
You can replace just one valve. Purists aside, I've put a used piston I cleaned up with a bastard file into an engine and ran it for 3 yearstimingnotch on the Pulley is easy to miss. You are also missing the timing scale on your motor .
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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I "rebuilt" the engine in the '80 Vanagon Westfalia that was given to me with a combination of new and reused parts like pistons and cylinders. It held up great for years afterward.
From the pic it appears that the engine may have had an air compressor at one point, but has been removed, leaving a gaping hole in your engine tin. This is probably a contributor to the dropped valve issues. Fix that, asap.
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'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22671
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| Abscate wrote: |
That's good news you can turn it over ny hand.
You can replace just one valve. Purists aside, I've put a used piston I cleaned up with a bastard file into an engine and ran it for 3 yearstimingnotch on the Pulley is easy to miss. You are also missing the timing scale on your motor . |
To be complete this strategy can also blow up on you in one month/1000 miles
There is nothing cheap about this car you are running. It's an expensive toy unless you can fix it, and I mean all of it, yourself. Make that commitment or sell it and move on
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
That's good news you can turn it over ny hand.
You can replace just one valve. Purists aside, I've put a used piston I cleaned up with a bastard file into an engine and ran it for 3 yearstimingnotch on the Pulley is easy to miss. You are also missing the timing scale on your motor . |
To be complete this strategy can also blow up on you in one month/1000 miles
There is nothing cheap about this car you are running. It's an expensive toy unless you can fix it, and I mean all of it, yourself. Make that commitment or sell it and move on |
That's my hope. Its just hard to figure out how to even get started. Maybe I ought to sell it and get an ealier one so I can make more use of the "idiot" book, (since that is the category I fall into). |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
I "rebuilt" the engine in the '80 Vanagon Westfalia that was given to me with a combination of new and reused parts like pistons and cylinders. It held up great for years afterward.
From the pic it appears that the engine may have had an air compressor at one point, but has been removed, leaving a gaping hole in your engine tin. This is probably a contributor to the dropped valve issues. Fix that, asap. |
Yes, I actually did cover that hole. The picture I uploaded from before then. |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| Abscate wrote: |
That's good news you can turn it over ny hand.
You can replace just one valve. Purists aside, I've put a used piston I cleaned up with a bastard file into an engine and ran it for 3 yearstimingnotch on the Pulley is easy to miss. You are also missing the timing scale on your motor . |
Timing scale? Where is it supposed to be? |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6589
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Looking for air-cooled VW mechanic in Auburn, AL area |
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| CessnaJon wrote: |
| Check the Van Alert app for someone nearby. Pm me if you get desperate, I'm a few hours away. |
^^^^^^
http://www.vanagonauts.com/Vanagon-Rescue-Squad74.htm
I forgot about Vanagon Rescue but highly recommend trying this!
Good Luck Man, it'll turn out okay.
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Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
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a2d2
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2013
Posts: 366
Location: EastVanagon, BC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| daddygad wrote: |
| Another question that comes up for me if anyone can answer is, if I replace one head for a burnt valve, do I need to do the other as well? |
Just wanted to jump in and add 2 things I haven't seen addressed yet:
- No, you do not need to replace both heads. Assuming the new head is the same volume (most "stock" ones should be pretty close) there won't be an issue.
- You can get a "rebuilt" head for a lot cheaper than $700. Here is one choice:
http://www.busdepot.com/071101061dx.
I would also think that the labour could be done for less than $1000. Make sure you take it to a mechanic who regularly works on these engines (Once a year doesn't count). Someone who's done it a few times will probably do it without removing the engine and will shave a couple hours off the job.
I was in a similar situation to you a few years back when I had very little mechanical knowledge and even less money. I was fortunate to move into a place with a garage and get my hands on a cheap engine from a parts van. Having a spare was invaluable - I was able to take it apart and put it back together without the worry of destroying my "main" engine. This really helped me make sense of all the confusing diagrams and instructions in the various manuals and at this point I am fairly confident diagnosing and repairing my own engine. Still have no money but the skills are worth more anyways.
Just giving you this story as a point of encouragement if you decide to dive in - you should be able to get a head put on for a lot cheaper than you were quoted but if you have the opportunity to learn to fix it yourself, take it. It will save you a van load of money in the long run.
p.s. Just from my own personal history with heads, I'm going to guess that you have a recessed valve seat as opposed to a burnt valve. Just mentioning this because if I'm right it means your head probably can't be repaired, you'll need to replace it.
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1981 Vanagon, Aircooled 2.0 AFC
1978 Baywindow Bus (R.I.P.) |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| a2d2 wrote: |
| daddygad wrote: |
| Another question that comes up for me if anyone can answer is, if I replace one head for a burnt valve, do I need to do the other as well? |
Just wanted to jump in and add 2 things I haven't seen addressed yet:
- No, you do not need to replace both heads. Assuming the new head is the same volume (most "stock" ones should be pretty close) there won't be an issue.
- You can get a "rebuilt" head for a lot cheaper than $700. Here is one choice:
http://www.busdepot.com/071101061dx.
I would also think that the labour could be done for less than $1000. Make sure you take it to a mechanic who regularly works on these engines (Once a year doesn't count). Someone who's done it a few times will probably do it without removing the engine and will shave a couple hours off the job.
I was in a similar situation to you a few years back when I had very little mechanical knowledge and even less money. I was fortunate to move into a place with a garage and get my hands on a cheap engine from a parts van. Having a spare was invaluable - I was able to take it apart and put it back together without the worry of destroying my "main" engine. This really helped me make sense of all the confusing diagrams and instructions in the various manuals and at this point I am fairly confident diagnosing and repairing my own engine. Still have no money but the skills are worth more anyways.
Just giving you this story as a point of encouragement if you decide to dive in - you should be able to get a head put on for a lot cheaper than you were quoted but if you have the opportunity to learn to fix it yourself, take it. It will save you a van load of money in the long run.
p.s. Just from my own personal history with heads, I'm going to guess that you have a recessed valve seat as opposed to a burnt valve. Just mentioning this because if I'm right it means your head probably can't be repaired, you'll need to replace it. |
Thanks very much for your input. Much appreciated. I may end up going that route. I was considering removing the head and sending to evwparts.com to have them recondition it for $120 + shipping, which isn't bad at all, but the problem is then my van is going to be sitting on the street taken apart while I wait for it to come back, which probably isn't too goo for the engine i suppose... |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for air-cooled VW mechanic in Auburn, AL area |
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| E1 wrote: |
| CessnaJon wrote: |
| Check the Van Alert app for someone nearby. Pm me if you get desperate, I'm a few hours away. |
^^^^^^
http://www.vanagonauts.com/Vanagon-Rescue-Squad74.htm
I forgot about Vanagon Rescue but highly recommend trying this!
Good Luck Man, it'll turn out okay. |
Thank you! |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| a2d2 wrote: |
p.s. Just from my own personal history with heads, I'm going to guess that you have a recessed valve seat as opposed to a burnt valve. Just mentioning this because if I'm right it means your head probably can't be repaired, you'll need to replace it. |
Would there be any way of diagnosing that without pulling the head off? I am probably going to try doing the adjustment before I do anything else, so that would be good to know if there's a way of sussing it out. |
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a2d2
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2013
Posts: 366
Location: EastVanagon, BC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| daddygad wrote: |
| a2d2 wrote: |
p.s. Just from my own personal history with heads, I'm going to guess that you have a recessed valve seat as opposed to a burnt valve. Just mentioning this because if I'm right it means your head probably can't be repaired, you'll need to replace it. |
Would there be any way of diagnosing that without pulling the head off? I am probably going to try doing the adjustment before I do anything else, so that would be good to know if there's a way of sussing it out. |
If it's an intake valve you might be able to see it by removing your carb and intake manifold. This is what one of mine looked like, yours may not be this bad:
If it's an exhaust valve you would have to remove your heater boxes and exhaust to see it.
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1981 Vanagon, Aircooled 2.0 AFC
1978 Baywindow Bus (R.I.P.) |
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AZ Landshaper
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 1698
Location: The Old Pueblo
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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Pull the valve cover after finding a replacement valve cover gasket. You dont want to break that seal without knowing you can close it back up. Id get a new gasket. A few of them.
Once the cover is off you will be able to see the springs. a dropped valve seat will result in a very very tight valve. If you remove the rocker arms the dropped spring will become more obvious as it protrudes further out than the other three.
Look into the vale adjust procedure. The notches will be on the back ring of your fan/ fanbelt pulley. when you go through the procedure you will find one or two very tight valves. You could alternatively rent a compression tester at the local flaps and test the cylinders to be dead sure where your issue is. Then you know what side to open up and where to look for issues. The muir book will be a lot of help on this motor. I cut my teeth with John and the type 4 motor w dual solex carbs. If you have time and tools you can always find a spot to pull the motor.
I did this once and had to push from parking spot to parking spot until my new engine head came in the mail. 
OR just pull the plugs and turn the motor over w the starter. The compressed air leaving the cylinders will be obvious. Your bum cylinder will stand out as there will be no air pushing through the spark plug hole.
_________________
Support Small Business.
-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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daddygad
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Needed: aircooled mechanic in auburnAL area or just plain advice |
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| AZ Landshaper wrote: |
Pull the valve cover after finding a replacement valve cover gasket. You dont want to break that seal without knowing you can close it back up. Id get a new gasket. A few of them.
Once the cover is off you will be able to see the springs. a dropped valve seat will result in a very very tight valve. If you remove the rocker arms the dropped spring will become more obvious as it protrudes further out than the other three.
Look into the vale adjust procedure. The notches will be on the back ring of your fan/ fanbelt pulley. when you go through the procedure you will find one or two very tight valves. You could alternatively rent a compression tester at the local flaps and test the cylinders to be dead sure where your issue is. Then you know what side to open up and where to look for issues. The muir book will be a lot of help on this motor. I cut my teeth with John and the type 4 motor w dual solex carbs. If you have time and tools you can always find a spot to pull the motor.
Thanks for all the great input. Still feeling a bit overwhelmed, but starting to get a better idea on what I need to do. Much appreciated.
I did this once and had to push from parking spot to parking spot until my new engine head came in the mail.
OR just pull the plugs and turn the motor over w the starter. The compressed air leaving the cylinders will be obvious. Your bum cylinder will stand out as there will be no air pushing through the spark plug hole. |
thanks for all the great input. Still feeling a bit overwhelmed, but starting to get a better idea of what I need to do. Much appreciated. |
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