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Mccurdy7778
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: Seattle WA
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 Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: Trail/crawl setup. |
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Okay so I'm new to the off roading section, but I'm planning my Baja build. My goal is to have a vehicle that can be driven on 4x4 trails. Hill climbs, gravel, moderate opsticles at slower to moderate speeds. My question is what suspension setups are people running for stuff like this??? I will be going with irs rear king pin up front. For the front, I was leaning towards coilovers with thru rods. Do u guys think I should extend the beam or get longer trailing arms? And then in the rear, add larger shock towers and 3x3 arms? This is just what I was reading others do from the forms....
I know I'll never be able to keep up with the jeeps and land cruisers I will be riding with, but I want something that can still put up a good fight.... I'm just looking for people with experience with this type of terrain vs dunes. Any input on suspension, tires, etc would be awesome! Thanks |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Trail/crawl setup. |
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| Mccurdy7778 wrote: |
Okay so I'm new to the off roading section, but I'm planning my Baja build. My goal is to have a vehicle that can be driven on 4x4 trails. Hill climbs, gravel, moderate opsticles at slower to moderate speeds. My question is what suspension setups are people running for stuff like this??? I will be going with irs rear king pin up front. For the front, I was leaning towards coilovers with thru rods. Do u guys think I should extend the beam or get longer trailing arms? And then in the rear, add larger shock towers and 3x3 arms? This is just what I was reading others do from the forms....
I know I'll never be able to keep up with the jeeps and land cruisers I will be riding with, but I want something that can still put up a good fight.... I'm just looking for people with experience with this type of terrain vs dunes. Any input on suspension, tires, etc would be awesome! Thanks |
If you go wider up front, you should probably go wider in the rear. Going wider in the rear is going to require a roll cage to have something to bolt the shock to. Longer front trailing arms also requires lengthening the chassis via a roll cage or the tires will hit.
For now, maybe "cut and turn" the front beam with the stock torsion leaves (or install adjusters) and re-index the rear torsions.
_________________
My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~  |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Trail/crawl setup. |
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The majority of my fun riding off road is on trails. As long as I have the ground clearance, I can run circles around the jeeps running the same trails. You'd be pretty impressed with a stock ride, maybe some ground clearance. My aluminum front beam was non-adjustable so I upgraded to a 6" over front with 1" wider trailing arms and a 3x3 kit out back just so I could tune the suspension for height more than stability. Get out there with what ya got and decide what's best for you then. I think coilovers are overkill for trail rides personally, but I'll be looking into that venture sooner than I think because of my occasional trip to the dunes and high speed trails.
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Trail/crawl setup. |
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| There is not 2 many places a stock jeep can go without a stockish baja following. You start going wider the trail starts seeming smaller. |
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Mccurdy7778
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: Seattle WA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Trail/crawl setup. |
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| Okay so next question. Best way to get ground clearance. How much lift can I get if I cut and turn or add adjusters? And I've seen some 3" lift spindles but they are 500$ a pair which is crazy expensive. Any other options? And then for the rear, I've never worked with irs, only swing axles. How much lift can I get with adjusting the spring plates? What other ways can I lift the rear? |
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vwjetboat
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2017
Posts: 1732
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Trail/crawl setup. |
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Here is a lot of the custom off road stuff on samba.. surf threw every page looking at every setup.. it will give you more info then actually asking questions as you can see what people have done..
And if you do not own a welder that is the first thing on list to buy.. mig is easy..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383554 |
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SamT
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2009
Posts: 1761
Location: Rule, Tx
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Trail/crawl setup. |
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If you want to be successful in varying terrain the name of the game is keeping the tires in contact with the ground. I'd put 3x3s in the rear and 2.5 air shocks, get you around 15 wheel travel and keep it pretty soft. I'd do some 2.0 air shocks and thru Rods up front. Maybe longer arms and wider later.
I've played in the river some with my rail. It will put any street legal jeep to shame. The suspension travel is what makes it. It has 2' of ground clearance and 15" travel in the rear. I've felt stuff poking the bottom of my seat a few times, so the higher you are the better.
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Rides:
300HP 900lb turbo VW rail 18/15 travel
Never ending jeep/rzr hybrid build!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=546712 |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5412
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Trail/crawl setup. |
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| Mccurdy7778 wrote: |
| Okay so next question. Best way to get ground clearance. How much lift can I get if I cut and turn or add adjusters? And I've seen some 3" lift spindles but they are 500$ a pair which is crazy expensive. Any other options? And then for the rear, I've never worked with irs, only swing axles. How much lift can I get with adjusting the spring plates? What other ways can I lift the rear? |
The cut and turn is a tricky question because there are several factors other than simply cutting and turning that play into how much you can get out of it. The two biggest factors are the steering set up, and the frame itself. If you have the stock steering box, the problem with cutting and turning 1/4" is the drivers side rod ends bind at full drop, and the long passengers side tie rod hits the bottom passengers side frame rail. If you move to a center mount box or rack and pinion, you can get more drop without hitting frame rails or binding tie rods. I did a 1/4" cut and turn with a stock steering box, and had to back it of an 1/8" to avoid rod end binding and tie rod to frame interference. My set up allowed the suspension to fully unload and only limits upward travel. I would say I am about 2" above bone stock, and about 1" above stock with the stock bump stop removed, so there is definitely room to gain by making modifications. Because everyones set up is a little bit different, there really is no definitive answer, just guidelines to start from and go from there to meet your needs. 
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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dirtkeeper
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 3200
Location: Left of everywhere
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Trail/crawl setup. |
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| all good tips here. Clearance is great and suspension travel too. The hardest to achieve is the crawling part. You want low gears and an engine with torque, think longer stroke engine. I have a 2050cc and standard bug gears with 4.37 ring and pinion. 28" rear tires. Because of the bigger motor i have some power when going slow. Any way going slow over technical rock and boulders is a little tricky because my power band is probably from 2000 rpm to 5000. but to crawl slowly you might only want to be at 1000 -2000 rpms. The torque engine i have really helps but it takes skill, some revving and other methods to go slow and technical. you can get a bus transmission will help. other than that the bug will get you there faster. Just this week i was out on some washboard roads doing 40 riding over the tops....... all the trucks an jeeps i saw were...crawling .... because the it was just too bumpy..... |
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