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Tom Powell
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Joined: December 01, 2005
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Location: Kaneohe
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 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:51 am Post subject: How do you quiet a poptop? |
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I have an '87 poptop that is very noisy above 45 mph. Most of the noise is from wind and airflow. Is there anything I can do, other than headphones or earplugs, to make driving at freeway speeds more bearable?
Aloha
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:22 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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Is it the pop top part or the luggage carrier making the noise?
Mine, above 40 MPH, the front lip of the carrier begins to vibrate/Rattle making a horrid noise!
I pulled off the highway, picked up a stick, about 1/2" in diameter and wedged it under the top lip. It's been quiet for years now.
I am in the process of taking off the luggage carrier to clean under it and plan on filing out the screw holes to become slots.
I will then sit in the carrier as I tighten the screws compressing the front tighter to the roof, hopefully enough to stop that horrible vibration!!
If this doesn't work, sticks are common and quite cheap!
The rest of the pop top I've not noticed any noises aside from the roof vent rattling at times, a piece of cardboard wedged in stopped that. I recently installed a screen which I hope will stop the vibration as well as bugs.
Dave
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djkeev
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OddN
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Location: Northern Norway
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:08 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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That is the Westfalia roof spoiler that was standard on the late model California and Atlantic. You could also order a sun roof with it.
It is the exact setup I have on my Multivan syncro.
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dobryan
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vwwestyman
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:23 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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I've seen lots of comments about the front luggage rack being noisy over here on Vanagons but do not recall similar comments on the Bus side.
I wonder if that is because the motors are so damn noisy people don't notice the luggage rack/wind noise? Or the design/shape is just different enough that it is less of an issue? Or maybe because the tie downs are lower in the rack, and therefore more difficult to use to attach a flat panel? Hmm
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Tom Powell
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Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| Is it the pop top part or the luggage carrier making the noise? ... Dave |
I think that the luggage carrier is making most of the wind noise. I saw the photos with the top faired with plywood or other material and that seems like a first step in noise reduction. What materials, that would withstand the elements, other than plywood could be used?
Aloha
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photogdave
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bobbyblack 
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Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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The cover for the luggage area seems like it should be an item available, made by someone like 10C, or etc. on the classifieds... Its remarkable that it hasn't happened yet. I'd vote for a rubber seal under the lip, and easy clamps at the rear, also sealed against wind/water.
In response to the issue about the Bay, the luggage rack is in the back.
Yet another idea from another version of the Type 2... the T4 has a rubber lip in front of the Westy top. I didn't like the look of it when I bought my '03 in '03, but I DID like the lack of wind and rain penetration. I'd guess that there could be an adaption of the rubber damn from the T4 part to put on the T3... Not at all sure of an aftermarket product on that. Yet another idea for entrepreneurs for the classifieds.
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vwwestyman
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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| bobbyblack wrote: |
The cover for the luggage area seems like it should be an item available, made by someone like 10C, or etc. on the classifieds... Its remarkable that it hasn't happened yet. I'd vote for a rubber seal under the lip, and easy clamps at the rear, also sealed against wind/water.
In response to the issue about the Bay, the luggage rack is in the back.
Yet another idea from another version of the Type 2... the T4 has a rubber lip in front of the Westy top. I didn't like the look of it when I bought my '03 in '03, but I DID like the lack of wind and rain penetration. I'd guess that there could be an adaption of the rubber damn from the T4 part to put on the T3... Not at all sure of an aftermarket product on that. Yet another idea for entrepreneurs for the classifieds. |
In 1974 the pop-top flipped with the hinge at the very back and roof rack at the front.
The same design as a Vanagon Westy for the roof.
In 1976 they changed the interior layout to a design that was more or less carried over into Vanagon Westys.
I have a '78 that is as noisy as any other Van/Bus but I haven't sat there thinking the noise was coming from the luggage rack. However, it is perfectly plausible that there is noise coming from the rack but it is being drowned out by other noise, or just "mixing" with the other noise as a terrible melody.
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kourt
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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I have a 1991 Vanagon Westfalia camper with the typical luggage carrier on top.
For the carrier itself, it is less noisy at speed when I have a small load up there in a Vanobag.
I have also put FatMat on a small area of the inside of the sheet metal body underneath the luggage carrier. That has helped turn what is normally a big timpani drum into an acoustically dead piece of sheet metal. You have to remove the headliner panel in order to do that work and you only need to cover a small percentage of the total sheet metal surface area to gain the intended deadening effect.
I also have one of those low pile carpet dash pads sold by GoWesty to help keep noise down (and it helps with other things too).
It goes without saying that noise reduction of that variety assumes you have already gone to the trouble of replacing all of your door and window seals, deadening the sheet metal behind the entire nose of the van (under the dash), in all the doors, and in all the large spaces (behind the galley), and have all your carpet installed with insulation (soft surfaces in the van will reduce reflected noise and keep bright noises down).
Too often I see folks complaining about how noisy their vans are, and they are driving around with ABS panels and hard rubber floor mats, with 25+ year old seals and no sheet metal deadening. And knobby tires. No wonder their ears are always ringing. You really need to work hard to bring down the noise level in a T3/Vanagon.
There are spans of sheet metal under the seats that transfer road/tire noise to the cabin and those must be deadened as well.
Believe it or not, even having curtains (and keeping them drawn) can help keep noise down.
For the poptop itself, there's not a lot to be done to make it quieter. Everyone here has probably seen that photo of the T3 in a wind tunnel:
The Westfalia luggage rack creates a lot of odd airflow behind its leading edge, which will generate noise.
Keep the flocking in good shape, get new seals (I think someone out there is selling an extra fat seal for better noise suppression) and make sure your skylight is properly maintained. If you have solar panels on your roof that might make things worse or better depending on air gaps behind the panels, the size of their leading and trailing edges, and how they are installed. If you have roof racks, you will have low howling.
Summary: for noise suppression, deaden the sheet metal panels, keep and/or increase soft/carpeted surfaces in the interior, replace all window/door seals, reduce or eliminate irregularities on the roof, fill or cover the luggage rack void, find quiet tires, and of course know your intake and exhaust plumbing well enough to understand how it contributes to the overall noise profile.
kourt
Last edited by kourt on Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AZ Landshaper
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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I noticed on a trip to Phoenix last week that my top also makes a bunch of noise. For me it's the pop section flexing in the wind. I literally thought something had attached to my roof and was whipping around.
This one trip through the Midwest I was caught in a tornado like wind and my top popped. 
All my gear took flight. Luckily we had a quick thinking hitchhiker on board. He grabbed the handle (73 camper) and hung on it till we found an over pass to hide below.
Poptops are precarious
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Yellow Rabbit
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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| A big problem I see is the silly ram air opening that funnels 65mph wind directly into the dash. I've never driven another car where shutting off the fresh air fan doesn't stop airflow to the dash vents. If there was a baffle covering the inlet it would help a lot. Sure you can close the vents but that high speed air should not be in the cab to begin with. |
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dgbeatty
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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I have one of the optional front roof sections, sometimes referred to as the "fang" BenT is investigating have a mold made.
As I understand it there is supposed to enough space on the black edge trim to allow water drainage and drying between the roof and the luggage rack.
I have been toying with "air tabs" and other small turbulator type devices for the last couple of years. The placement and results have been a bit counter intuitive to say the least but progress is being made.
Last edited by dgbeatty on Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dobryan
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Yellow Rabbit
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop ? |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| The ram air does not add noise that I can discern. The vast majority is from the luggage rack and door seals..... |
I think this varies by year. On my 85, there is always ambient air at the side vents. I suspect later vans with the revised air vents could be much better. I know opening and closing the side vents changes the sound level in my van a lot. |
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dobryan
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Yellow Rabbit
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop? |
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| While driving 1100 miles last weekend I spent some time contemplating wind noise. Looking at the wind tunnel pics above, I wonder how much the under bumper spoiler helps. |
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Steve M.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop? |
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While I had my '68 Westy I had removed all the door seals for paint. Then I came up with a good deal on firewood so I drove to get the firewood.
It was incredibly noisey so much so that I stopped and taped over all the door seams with masking tape which became quieter then having the rubber door seals in place. No brainer on that one.
I have always preferred the rear mounted luggage area of the older air cooled Westy's because of the noise created by placing it in front.
If you want proof - make a good fitting cover out of cardboard to fit the luggage rack and tape it down sealing all the edges.
If you really want to see the aerodynamics of the body buy a roll of yarn and a few rolls of blue tape. Cut the yarn into 6" pieces and tape it the yarn down a few inches apart going from going from the lower sill to the roof line. Each of the rows of tape should be about 6" behind the one starting in the front of it so that you can see the yarn flap in the wind. You can try to do the whole roof if your arms were long enough to reach across! You should be able to get the luggage rack and the leading edge of the poptop easy enough since you can stand in the doors to reach across.
Essentially it is now a rolling wind tunnel experiment. I think you would only have to do from the front back to the "B" pillar and from the "C" pillar back to the rear. One thing it would do would answer the discussion about air going into the engine cooling vents at speed.
Get somebody to video you as you go down the road if they can stop laughing long enough to aim the camera!
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Steve M.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: Re: How do you quiet a poptop? |
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Regarding the yarn test above.
It would be interesting to see the effect of the side mirrors sticking straight out and folded back, vent windows open or closed etc., etc.
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