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krusher Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2002 Posts: 7652 Location: europe
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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ps2375 wrote: |
krusher wrote: |
what do you not see the point of? their saving gas with as lean a mix as possible. |
Your statement before the link. I pretty much have to have a WB to run MS and to know what AFR's I'm getting, but I don't have 4. And I was nowhere near as lean as many of those examples are. |
I'm not saying it cant be done, but with one 02 sensor your just getting an average of the 4 cylinders, one could be 19 to 1 another 17 to 1. _________________ (06:31:07) RoachGhia: "i drink dick way too fast" |
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ps2375 Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014 Posts: 2471 Location: Meridian,ID
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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On a water-cooled motor, I wouldn't worry about that spread, there's plenty of cooling to deal with any heat generated and the motor is under minimal load. Now if it was doing that while under heavy load, different story. I specifically made my maps to run that lean at that specific condition. Even when passing a Semi-truck and pushing thru the wake coming off the front of the truck, the slight throttle tip in required moved the targeted AFR out of the lean area so it didn't have to "fight" to get thru it. And any sort of headwind requiring more throttle took it out of that range also. It's all in the tune... |
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vwsparts.com Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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http://www.endtuning.com/afr.html
I think at least for now I am going to use the 1600 motor, wide box 4 speed solex 1bbl dual downtube early exhaust, the 14' lrr tires off the toyota and monitor my a/f at my most common speed which is usually 60-65. I think if I can jet it to 14:1- 14.5:1 everything will be about as good as it can get for the money and time involved. I do wonder about a cam with less valve overlap. But I have all of this left over from other projects and have 200.00 in the caddy body. I really don't see how I can lose. Thanks Everyone and please don't quit chipping in if you think I should do something different please say so. Does anyone remember if any of the carby rabbits had egr? |
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Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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My 76 Rabbit had a carb and EGR. I got rid of both and installed 40 DCOE's. |
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vwsparts.com Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:27 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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Butcher wrote: |
My 76 Rabbit had a carb and EGR. I got rid of both and installed 40 DCOE's. |
Thanks, webers header cam close ratio 5sps 16v swap etc.etc. Thats how I used to do this stuff,that's why I have all this good fairly stock used stuff laying around. My goals have changed. Just want a cheap to build easy on gas truck for when I have to pick stuff up out of town. Everything is 100 miles from where I live. Just asked the EGR question because back in the day if it was there It wouldn't have been when I was done. But in this application I am sure it will be beneficial.
Thanks again! |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:44 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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I had a 81 Caddy that had a 5-speed trans with an overdrive 5th, I installed a 1.8 from a 83 GTI with the Caddy's CIS & drove it like that for a few years. The guy I sold it to drove it from NC to Vancouver & claimed that it got around 41MPG. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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I get at best 31mpg regularly with my 81 1.7 5sp Caddy. I really have a tough time that the person got 41mpg. |
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vwsparts.com Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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Butcher wrote: |
I get at best 31mpg regularly with my 81 1.7 5sp Caddy. I really have a tough time that the person got 41mpg. |
What if his last fill up was in Canada and was basing milage on last fillup? Is Canada selling US gallons or imperial gallons? and how would that affect gas milage? I think I just solved the problem if we all move to canada we will get better mpg. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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That's what he said, I know that it got better fuel economy than any other vehicle that I had at the time but I personally never tracked it. Perhaps he went the opposite direction from my grandfather's "uphill both ways in 1' of snow with with the wind in your face". _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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vwsparts.com Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
That's what he said, I know that it got better fuel economy than any other vehicle that I had at the time but I personally never tracked it. Perhaps he went the opposite direction from my grandfather's "uphill both ways in 1' of snow with with the wind in your face". |
I wasn't being critical of you or anyone I appreciate everyones input, I was just making what I though was a funny comment about if we measure our fuel differently or go where they measure fuel differently our milage will go up no modifications required. I propose we contact washington about making 5 qts = 1 gallon , so everything will get good milage. |
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vwsparts.com Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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Butcher wrote: |
I get at best 31mpg regularly with my 81 1.7 5sp Caddy. I really have a tough time that the person got 41mpg. |
Is your caddy all stock? 81 1.7 is that 1bbl carter/weber? Thanks I want alittle better than 31 but hell I'd settle for 30 as long as I have a truck.Everything VW I ever owned got low to mid 20s mpg but everything had cams,big valve heads,2.0 motors, .dcoe's,17's etc. etc. built to beat as we used to refer to them white hog american junk. Man I was arrogant when I was younger. But it's hard not to be when nobody else is not quite as cool as you. LOL.
What the hell happened how did everybody catch up to me? |
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krusher Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2002 Posts: 7652 Location: europe
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:28 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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Butcher wrote: |
I get at best 31mpg regularly with my 81 1.7 5sp Caddy. I really have a tough time that the person got 41mpg. |
totally depends what your comparing.
Yours 31 might be average all conditions, his might be 50mph on the free way tailwind downhill.
I had a 54bus with a 1800 twin carb ported heads etc, 3000rpm @60mph got a best of 32mpg once on a 200mile cruise, easily got 26 out of it all type driving, 41mpg in a caddy at 60mph with a 5th gear freeway cruising sounds easily obtainable. _________________ (06:31:07) RoachGhia: "i drink dick way too fast" |
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Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:54 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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My Rabbit pickup gets 30-31mpg [28-30mpg in the cold winter months because I warm it up]. It is completely stock w/CIS, +215k miles, never really maintained [and I'm a mechanic], I use synthetic oil, and it only has a coolant pump/alt belt. There is no power steering or A/C.
To be fair, there is no dash or carpets [I was looking for a water leak and once I found/fixed it, I wanted to QC my work, 3 years later, it's still not leaking] but there is enough junk in the bed that covers the weight of the items out of the interior. It's a mechanics truck that I use to pick up/deliver clients cars and used parts. I always get a weird look when I drop off my beater Caddy to pickup a clients $100k+ car. The look of the clients face when I bring it back fixed is even more priceless.
Not that you should, my Caddy will accept at least 2 more gallons if I trickle the fuel in it. Some pumps allow me to do it, some do not. When I fix the fuel level sensor, I will figure out how to make it take that last 2 gallons easier. I've seen over 400 miles on a tank full when I do that. Since the gas gauge does not work, I usually start to look for gas at 350 miles and start to stress at 380 miles. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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I have an 82 2.0 16v caddy. running all the stock engine management, and A/C. I forget the trans in the truck now, but it's a tall geared 8v as I recall.
I can pull about 33 mpg@ 80. if I drop to 65 I can get about 38. don't know what your goals are, but unless your run a 9A or 2Y transmission an 8v will be a bit slow by todays standards. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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joemac42 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2017 Posts: 1
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Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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ps2375 wrote: |
And the reason for a 14.7:1 ratio on most modern cars is for the catalytic convertor, they don't do well in a fuel rich environment. |
At 14.7:1, 3-way catalytic converters reduce NOx, HC and CO (hence "3-way"). 3-way catalytic converters are fine in a fuel rich environment. They still reduce NOx emissions, but the excess fuel means higher HC and CO. Catalyst temperature are also somewhat lower (enrichment is used for "catalyst protection" at high loads). They don't do well in a fuel lean environment. NOx reduction goes to zero. HC and CO are low while the catalyst lives, but thermal sintering of the active materials happens at lower exhaust inlet temperatures during lean operation and eventually the catalyst material sinters.
15:1 is relatively safe depending on engine load. 17:1 is approaching the lean misfire limit unless you increase spark energy. Also, never lug the engine while lean, particularly without integrating a knock sensor into the Megasquirt or you risk knocking a ring land off of a piston from pre-ignition. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12730 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:12 am Post subject: Re: MK1 MPG build need your input,please reread,I edited my post |
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My '76 Rabbit 2 bbl carb got a best of 34 mpg (imperial gallons) right from new. Deleting the EGR did nothing to change that one way or the other. My daughter has a '92 Jetta with stock 1800, 5 speed and injection that gets over 40 mpg. Based on that I would go with a 5 speed, 1800 and CIS from your parts collection.
A smaller engine does not always make better mileage because it is working harder to do the same job. |
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