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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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 Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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Well, look what i found... Wouldn't be so bad if it had some material sticking out of the beam. Any suggestions?
Oh and yes, your eyes do not decieve you; the PO TACK welded a bolt onto it to mount shock and hide it with big fender washers...  . What the hell man... And the broken off bolt wasnt even cleaned up before welding! |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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_________________
"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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On a somewhat happier note, i also uncovered this under silver paint (of which the whole block was painted with some time ago)
If its hard to see it reads "STROKER" with a date stamp from '77. Kinda cool, if the engine isnt garbage anyway  |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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| Mylesvw wrote: |
On a somewhat happier note, i also uncovered this under silver paint (of which the whole block was painted with some time ago)
If its hard to see it reads "STROKER" with a date stamp from '77. Kinda cool, if the engine isnt garbage anyway |
_________________
"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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| Mylesvw wrote: |
Thanks Mike and Bob, it sure does help the budget to not have to splurge on a dizzy (i could get a 009 china copy for the cost of bosch points and condenser, but I'd have to buy another one soon after I'm sure lol). I did, however notice that the notch on the distributor indicating #1, is facing the fan shroud and not the cylinder? Is that a type 3 thing? The rotor and plug for #1 line up in the same orientation as well. Almost as if its 90 out, whats with that?
Found more rust... Yay, i do believe this car will be close to 75 percent new metal when im done. I don't know if that a good thing or bad thing... |
If the notch and rotor are at about 7 o'clock when looking straight down on it, then it's right where it should be. No#1 on a bug is normally found at about 1 o'clock.
Not really a surprise. These cars have hidden rust traps built into them. A lot of that is because seam sealer has dried out and fallen off.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17969
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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STROKER probably means it has/had a stroker crankshaft & is/was a 1915 to 2275 cc bigger engine! 
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Mylesvw wrote: |
Thanks Mike and Bob, it sure does help the budget to not have to splurge on a dizzy (i could get a 009 china copy for the cost of bosch points and condenser, but I'd have to buy another one soon after I'm sure lol). I did, however notice that the notch on the distributor indicating #1, is facing the fan shroud and not the cylinder? Is that a type 3 thing? The rotor and plug for #1 line up in the same orientation as well. Almost as if its 90 out, whats with that?
Found more rust... Yay, i do believe this car will be close to 75 percent new metal when im done. I don't know if that a good thing or bad thing... |
If the notch and rotor are at about 7 o'clock when looking straight down on it, then it's right where it should be. No#1 on a bug is normally found at about 1 o'clock.
Not really a surprise. These cars have hidden rust traps built into them. A lot of that is because seam sealer has dried out and fallen off. |
Thanks Bob, that's reassuring... I had it in my head that it'd be like a bug, because thats all i've ever tinkered with. Now i can get on adjsuting those valves.
Yea it's a rust bucket... at least the floor pans have been swapped with some '73 ones that only need the crappy battery tray patch REdone. Except the PO i guess had a hard time lining everything up because instead of the proper hardware in the proper holes to mount pan to body; there's large sheet metal screws a couple inches off all around. 
I wondered why the extra parts box had a bunch of pan bolts and washers. |
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| STROKER probably means it has/had a stroker crankshaft & is/was a 1915 to 2275 cc bigger engine! |
I'd be happy with anything with 90.5 cylinders 
Although, no auxiliary oil cooling, no full flow, and the original rocker shafts. 
Only time will tell... As in the time it takes for me to get parts in to get this sucker fired up... Hopefully.
I've also gotta order a new header/exhaust 
The flange on the header ripped off in transit... And is far to gone to repair... Very old header with dual tiny glasspacks that attach to it. No branding that i can see on either one. Havent seen one like it. I'll post pics and see if yall's wisdom can shed some light. I know its not a new empi flange... Different hole orientation... Looks quite old.
Of the cheaper headers/exhaust out there... Are theyre any worth wasting $ on?.
I would just like something simple with a glasspack. |
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Boogievan
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Port Orchard, WA.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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| Mylesvw wrote: |
Well, look what i found... Wouldn't be so bad if it had some material sticking out of the beam. Any suggestions?
Oh and yes, your eyes do not decieve you; the PO TACK welded a bolt onto it to mount shock and hide it with big fender washers... . What the hell man... And the broken off bolt wasnt even cleaned up before welding! |
Simply stunning.
You could try drilling out the center of the bolt and using an easy out.
If that doesn't work, get a nut with an inside diameter that's slightly smaller than the bolt. Weld the inside of the nut to the broken end of the bolt that's stuck in the beam.
Hopefully the P.O. didn't weld the bolt into the beam when he "fixed" it. May need to do some surgical grindering to free it up. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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| Boogievan wrote: |
| Mylesvw wrote: |
Well, look what i found... Wouldn't be so bad if it had some material sticking out of the beam. Any suggestions?
Oh and yes, your eyes do not decieve you; the PO TACK welded a bolt onto it to mount shock and hide it with big fender washers... . What the hell man... And the broken off bolt wasnt even cleaned up before welding! |
Simply stunning.
You could try drilling out the center of the bolt and using an easy out.
If that doesn't work, get a nut with an inside diameter that's slightly smaller than the bolt. Weld the inside of the nut to the broken end of the bolt that's stuck in the beam.
Hopefully the P.O. didn't weld the bolt into the beam when he "fixed" it. May need to do some surgical grindering to free it up. |
I'd try drilling it. It may or may not move, but you'll get closer to being able to "bolt" it back on. It's a 14mm threaded bolt after all.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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Got a little update...
Points and condenser arrived today.
I installed them and my rotor would only budge like a quarter turn while trying to turn the engine over to tdc while i was about to start static timing.
I pulled distridutor and disassembled it (not a particularly fun job)
Man, that pin on the bottom of the distr shaft is a beast to get on n off.
Anyway, the screw holding condenser on dizzy body was stopping the assembly from rotating inside (and bent it up pretty bad.
So i tore the whole thing down and cleaned up the internals. (Sorry no pictures guys, i was in a rush and it was dark outsiden i just wanted to get inside and grab some dinner). I'll probably go through it again and soak all the parts and do it proper like to post pics and commentary.
After reassembling, i just used a stack of tiny washers to back the screw out of the body far enough for it to rotate freely. Funny though, it didnt have this problem before tonight. Idk, maybe i did something a couple nights ago i cant remember which screwed it up.
I went to static time it with a test light (its brand new, well never used but a few yrs old). I connected to neg on coil and into generator body for the handle side. I moved dizzy body side to side. But no light! What? I thought... But... Hold on a sec.
So yes, it is a possibility the lights no good. But i think not.
I said screw it, and went for it. Turned the key and it started!!!
But its backfiring through carbs and exhaust consistently. Damn, so close.
Maybe thats why my light didnt come on, the timing is way off.
The PO said that last he tried to crank it, he couldnt bc the timing was real messed up.
Could this be a symptom of 180 out of time? The little two toothed gear held by the pin was put back on in the same orientation as before. Could be possible that it was on wrong from the start. But its a stock distributor and looked like it hadnt been tampdistributorMaybe im remembering incorrectly and did put it on backwards. Would this outcome be a symptom of something like that.
Anybody have any ideas considering these specific circumstances? I will say, it didnt hesitate to start up, just backfires like crazy and is real rough and slow. And wont idle hardly. |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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First thing I would do is double check the plug wires to be sure the firing order is right. Sounds like a couple of wires are switched.
_________________
"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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| SBD wrote: |
| First thing I would do is double check the plug wires to be sure the firing order is right. Sounds like a couple of wires are switched. |
Yea, I'll have to look at that. Thanks SBD. I've gotten maybe 6 hours of sleep over the past 3 days/nights, so i just wanted to get inside and relax lol. I know #1 wire is in correct location because i removed it and double checked where it went but havent even thought to check the others. Hopefully thats what it is.
Would that cause the test light to not illuminate while trying to statically time the engine? i grounded out the handle part in the generator like on a bug... and the gator clip on the coil negative side with the condenser wire. |
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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Ok checked plug wires and all were correct. Still cant get the test light to even come on.
Quick question
What orientation should the distributor cam lobe be in at TDC? People say you can hear the clock of the points when timing, which would indicate to me that the lobe would come on the points contact at TDC, correct?
So my isnt even close at TDC?
And my plate in which the points are attached to is very loose from the plate underneath it (dont know what you call those plates). The bentley doesnt really have any in depth info on the internal workings of the dizzy (at least not the answeres i need).
Ill post a pic of my dizzy cam lobe in relation to points at TDC. Thanks guys. |
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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Donnie strickland
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Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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At a loss guys...
I bought an inexpensive test light because mine had a dead bulb. Mustve been a bad coincidence because the new one still didnt light up...
Anybody have any knowledge on my dizzy cam lobe question? I would imagine that the lobe should be close to opening points at tdc, if guys can her the points click when timing. I rotated it as far as it would go counter and clockwise to see if it would come up on the lobe, not even close. And then there is the extreme amount play/looseness of the plate that the points bolt to (itll lift a little and cause my points gap to screw up. Also alot of up and down play in dizzy rotor shaft). The rotor shaft comes up prolly more than an eighth an inch when pulling the rotor off.
So, you guys think its time for a new distributor or what?
Again, thanks for the patience with my questions (they could possibly be answered before, but i havent foundem with my vocabulary). I wont be driving it very soon but the sound of a good running aircooled engine would be music to my ears right about now. I'm wanting to get this thing running, unfortunately i have to go outta town for work next week. At least that would be ONE positive thing about this project i could think about while away  |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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I'll try again -- have you tested your light? The new one?
Ignore the distributor lobe. You don't time the engine by looking at that.
Are the points opening at all? If the points don't open the light won't come on.
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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Mylesvw
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
I'll try again -- have you tested your light? The new one?
Ignore the distributor lobe. You don't time the engine by looking at that.
Are the points opening at all? If the points don't open the light won't come on. |
No the points open only on contact with the raised lobes on the shaft, correct?
Thats why i'm confused, if that is indeed correct. I have looked closely while adjusting side to side the dizzy body. Perhaps i could get it to rotate farther by removing vac canister? (That impedes my movement turning counterclockwise but then that would be a whole othee set of problems. Which is why i am wondering maybe the dizzy drive gear is installed a tooth off or something... Idk but the PO sid he couldnt start it because of timong issues...
Oh and no, i havent tested new test light |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Story of a Type 3 |
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Test your light before you do anything else.
When the points rider is on top of the lobe, the gap between the points should be .016".
Rotate the engine and see if the light turns on and off.
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