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Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved)
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GArBa
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

a fatal incident happened this week in Milan involving a VW thing. the rear left drum came loose and the wheel jumped lanes and hit a biker coming from the other direction, killing him. The driver of the thing managed to coast to the right shoulder and was unharmed.

report (in italian) and pictures from italian leading newspaper "corriere della sera" here

(rough) english automatic translation here courtesy of google

Root causes of the incident are being investigated by prosecutors but, in the meantime, a general recommendation to anyone working on their brakes: do not take shortcuts, do not overlook rebuilding procedures, don't go cheap on materials.

RIP to the victim of the incident and condolences to his family.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

Wow! That's terrible.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

Crap, that is terrible. The whole drum, came off, that is abnormal, I wonder if it cracked or the large nut failed.

The translation is a bit weird:
Quote:
The centaur could not avoid the wheel that suddenly detached from an old Volkswagen Peach in transit on the opposite lane. It has reported severe trauma to the head and chest, unnecessary to ride to the hospital


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Crap, that is terrible. The whole drum, came off, that is abnormal, I wonder if it cracked or the large nut failed.

"We don't need no stinkin cotter pin."
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

Pretty scary that a mistake working on our VW's can lead to killing someone. Of course we all know this but this thread is a good reminder to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's".

That poor guy on the bike. RIP
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Crap, that is terrible. The whole drum, came off, that is abnormal, I wonder if it cracked or the large nut failed.


Memorial Day 1981, mid-day; traveling from Arizona to San Pedro CA in my 1970 VW with Mrs. Cusser #1 to go on a 4-day honeymoon cruise. On I-10 in California somewhere on west side of Desert Center, a barefoot guy with no shirt (remember how hot it gets out here) runs into the freeway to flag me down. Turns out that his older VW did throw the tire/wheel/drum and he had no jack, flagged me down because he wanted to borrow my jack. Amazingly, he had found the rear axle nut; and more amazing: I had my 36mm socket are breaker bar with me, and a replacement big cotter pin.

So it can happen, have no idea if his axle nut had a retaining cotter pin in it prior to that or not, doubt it. Anyway, got him going, doubt he ever realized how fortunate he was that someone with socket and cotter pin just happened by...rare like getting struck by lightning holding the winning lottery ticket in hand ! That guy was sure no rocket scientist, and I don't know if he ever grew up to become President....
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

Like the guy in Florida back in 2013 that got swallowed up by a sinkhole that opened up under his bedroom - one of those things that make me believe in FATE. When it's your time - there's nothing you can do about it. If you've come close and "miraculously" survived - it wasn't your time.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

so sad to hear. many people just dont realize things like this can happen and do happen. forget the cotter pin and just from driving the nut comes loose.it was probably not torqued high enough either, but the cotter pin should of held it till the splines cut loose.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
EverettB wrote:
Crap, that is terrible. The whole drum, came off, that is abnormal, I wonder if it cracked or the large nut failed.


Memorial Day 1981, mid-day; traveling from Arizona to San Pedro CA in my 1970 VW with Mrs. Cusser #1 to go on a 4-day honeymoon cruise. On I-10 in California somewhere on west side of Desert Center, a barefoot guy with no shirt (remember how hot it gets out here) runs into the freeway to flag me down. Turns out that his older VW did throw the tire/wheel/drum and he had no jack, flagged me down because he wanted to borrow my jack. Amazingly, he had found the rear axle nut; and more amazing: I had my 36mm socket are breaker bar with me, and a replacement big cotter pin.

So it can happen, have no idea if his axle nut had a retaining cotter pin in it prior to that or not, doubt it. Anyway, got him going, doubt he ever realized how fortunate he was that someone with socket and cotter pin just happened by...rare like getting struck by lightning holding the winning lottery ticket in hand ! That guy was sure no rocket scientist, and I don't know if he ever grew up to become President....



Actually.....and I have seen this a handful of times.....even when some people put the cotter pin in....if its installed incorrectly and ...is the wrong SIZE cotter pin....long miles can rattle that pin around and just wear it in half.
This is especially prevalent on basic cheap "hardware store" cotter pins...made for your daddy's wheel barrow.....that are neither zinc plated or stainless steel.

Between the cotter pin rusting to crap on wheels that run no hubcaps....and a pin that is not really large enough in diameter to fill the hole....and has only one leg bent on the other side.....that rusting cotter pin will flip and vibrate around and just turn into powder.

If the cotter pin is not TIGHT once you bend the legs back....it can rattle until a large portion of it wears away. Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

There's also the possibility that someone spared no expense and put a new nut on it.

Tram wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
Tram wrote:
This should end the debate about the "quality" of new VW replacement parts.

Observe the simple Early Bay brake drum castle nut... You know, the one with all the torque?

Before installing:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



After installing:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Any questions?

It's come down to a business decision for me... if I can't get NOS or German parts, I'm not touching it. Even the Danish stuff blows now. I recently put the electrical part of an ignition switch in a customer's Squareback. Made in Denmark.

First switch fell apart in the bag as I was removing the bag with the switch in it from the box.

Second switch came from a different vendor. Wound up being the same brand- not quite as bad as the first one, but the parts guy rolled his eyes at me and grabbed a punch and gently tapped the dimples in the metal can down onto the plastic to snug it up because I wouldn't do it. Then he handed it to me and told me it'd be fine and he'd guarantee it if it wasn't.

I put it in for the customer mid June. It's coming back on the hook as soon as I can get it in. Sure, my guy will give me another one, but how many times do I want to tear this damn thing apart to do this? Rolling Eyes

It ain't just Bays


Aww.....Those look like little round "Toblerones"......just crack off a piece when you need one!

Who made those? Ray


Beats me, but AFAIK the parts guy I use got em through IMC just like everything else. Could you just imagine going around a sharp curve down a steep mountain pass when this happens? Shocked

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
There's also the possibility that someone spared no expense and put a new nut on it.

Tram wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
Tram wrote:
This should end the debate about the "quality" of new VW replacement parts.

Observe the simple Early Bay brake drum castle nut... You know, the one with all the torque?

Before installing:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



After installing:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Any questions?

It's come down to a business decision for me... if I can't get NOS or German parts, I'm not touching it. Even the Danish stuff blows now. I recently put the electrical part of an ignition switch in a customer's Squareback. Made in Denmark.

First switch fell apart in the bag as I was removing the bag with the switch in it from the box.

Second switch came from a different vendor. Wound up being the same brand- not quite as bad as the first one, but the parts guy rolled his eyes at me and grabbed a punch and gently tapped the dimples in the metal can down onto the plastic to snug it up because I wouldn't do it. Then he handed it to me and told me it'd be fine and he'd guarantee it if it wasn't.

I put it in for the customer mid June. It's coming back on the hook as soon as I can get it in. Sure, my guy will give me another one, but how many times do I want to tear this damn thing apart to do this? Rolling Eyes

It ain't just Bays


Aww.....Those look like little round "Toblerones"......just crack off a piece when you need one!

Who made those? Ray


Beats me, but AFAIK the parts guy I use got em through IMC just like everything else. Could you just imagine going around a sharp curve down a steep mountain pass when this happens? Shocked


I was thinking about this post from Tram as well Mark. It would be something if the investigators recovered a cheap nut like this broke and caused the fatality. Maybe a serious lawsuit against the manufacture would improve the quality of these shitting parts we have to deal with.

Oh who am I kidding.. I'm sure that crappy nut is made in some third world country by a company that's hidden behind multiple fronts.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad thats a shame- rolling up the road and seeing a tire coming at you.--

Just a note on cotter pins- Any boat yard will have them for older outboards- high quality and SS. trim to match.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

williamM wrote:
Crying or Very sad thats a shame- rolling up the road and seeing a tire coming at you.--

Just a note on cotter pins- Any boat yard will have them for older outboards- high quality and SS. trim to match.


Yes I would and often do use stainless steel cotter pins. It's easy to speculate as to what happened, could be stub axle coming apart as well, who knows.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

That sure is a tragedy, had a trailer wheel come off due to a broken axle one time going down a hill. Wheel hit a pick up coming the other way. Totaled the truck, luckily no one was hurt.

We also break rear drums in formula Vee, Italian or Chinese. The OG smooth drums never seem to break. There are also special made replacement drum without the tab hole.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:

The translation is a bit weird:
Quote:
...old Volkswagen Peach...



aside form usual issues when going from romance to germanic languages and vice-versa, the term "peach", which seems completely out of place here, is actually google trying to figure out the italian name of the VW 181, i.e. "Pescaccia".

That was meant by VW to be a portmanteau of "pesca" and "caccia" which mean respectively "(the activity of) fishing" and "(the activity of) hunting". (to give the idea, I'll render the name in English as "Fishunting").

now unfortunately for VW "pesca" also means "peach" and "-accia" is a pejorative suffix so the name evokes in most Italian speakers (and in google's translator, too) images of a "bad peach" rather than the intended outdoor sports, and it is considered to have been one of the causes of the lackluster sales record of the VW 181 in Italy.

just a bit of trivia. In the meantime, the italian VW community is of course aware of this tragic incident and I'll try to update this thread if and when new information will be available.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

We've been talking about putting the pin back in, but how many of us have used the same pin every time we've taken off the back wheel?
I try to always replace the pin every time I remove the wheel.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

6T5 square wrote:
We've been talking about putting the pin back in, but how many of us have used the same pin every time we've taken off the back wheel?
I try to always replace the pin every time I remove the wheel.


Yes.....spot on! You should always replace cotter pins. One should also carry a handful of cotter pins in your spares kit to cover axles, tie rods and in my case also for the idler arm and pitman arm. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
6T5 square wrote:
We've been talking about putting the pin back in, but how many of us have used the same pin every time we've taken off the back wheel?
I try to always replace the pin every time I remove the wheel.


Yes.....spot on! You should always replace cotter pins. One should also carry a handful of cotter pins in your spares kit to cover axles, tie rods and in my case also for the idler arm and pitman arm. Ray


I've always reused the cotter pins but it's not a good practice clearly. I've also always torqued the axle nuts correctly and have never had one come loose. A lot of driveway mechanics don't though which is why they should always use a new, correct cotter pin as insurance.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

A high school classmate of mine was killed some years ago in the same manner. An entire wheel broke loose from the trailer of a big rig on a local freeway, bounced over the center divider, and landed on him head on while he was driving his MG. Killed him instantly. As for Thing's entire wheel coming off, I wonder what the brake drum splines look like.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) Reply with quote

purely under torqued and cotter pin left out...
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