EGR Demand in California

[RWK]

If your going to to get patterns made, the 3d models are good, otherwise cut the hard part direct from bar stock from your cad, someone can do the cutter path/program,right? or is that the hang up? That will have to be machine specific, (writing the post)), I can get all that done, just need the machine controller type. Whats the material ? S.S. 300 or 400 series?
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[SGKent]

I am waiting for Ramon, Jeff and Robbie to get back to me with an update. Last update sent to me was that the machinist was ready to make a bunch. Then crickets. SARS-2 doesn't help.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[ivwshane]

We can bet money that my EGR is the same where it counts.

Here are the important measurements:

Body length: 34mm
Bottom hole to plenum: width 18.8mm depth 8.6mm*
Side hole to EGR tube: 10.8mm
Top hole to diaphragm/top housing/lever: width 20.3mm depth: 20mm*
Shaft diameter: 8.6mm
The nut on the bottom is 5mm (8mm socket)
Bottom sealing ring: width 12.8m
Top housing outer ring diameter: 24.2mm inner diameter: 21.5mm
Bolt holes: outer edge to outer edge of opposite bolt: 38.5mm inner edge to edge: 25.6mm

*depths are a little subjective, I left the metal seal on both sides in and measured from the lowest point I could get on the sealing ring.

I'm unable to measure the inner sealing ring because I can't get the bottom nut off.

The only difference between mine and an original is the original has material removed from the top where the EGR tube connects and its essentially the shape of the gasket. In fact mine looks like a steel version of the pink 3D printed one.


***caveat
I don't have high precision instruments nor do I have the skills in measuring precisely, plus I'm measuring worn parts.
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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab

[SGKent]

[ivwshane]

[SGKent]

Ramon said he will check in with the machinist tomorrow if he can to see the status.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Ulu]

Wow! I just read this whole thread from the beginning, and my eyes hurt.

And my head hurts from the CARB nonsense.

What a long strange trip.

[SGKent]

[Ulu]

The whole thing reminds me of the old joke about changing the muffler bearings every 15,000 miles.

I think the design using an elastomeric seal & metal cup is nonsense. No wonder they didn't last. The key is that we have very high heat, but very little motion is required of the valve. It should be more sturdy and reliable than elastomers.

IMO This should have a metal bellowed diaphragm or "Bellofram" type seal.

This would cost much less for material. It can be prototyped by hand. The tooling can be made cheaply. It can be pressed in any cheap frame press or a big vise. It must be pressed to the shaft, or maybe silicone adhesive used.


It appears other folks are involved in trying to solve this issue, outside of the Samba. I don't want to step on their business opportunity, because I don't need the money and I am not looking to make money here

I offered to measure a sample and do a part drawing, and that offer is still open, but I think we'd just be building inferior copies of a poorly designed part that didn't last.

Now I have a tech interest, and may myself run afoul of this same situation, having no EGR at all. All the plumbing is missing too. No air cleaner. Wrong muffler.

If I need to go for smog I'm screwed.

BUT, I'm not trying to build a classic Samba. I'm trying to register a funky kit car. It doesn't have to stay VW powered and I won't jump thru too many hoops to keep it such.

Smog might be far from my worst headache. If the state makes it too difficult to register, I'll just sell it off cheap to rid myself of headaches.

[SGKent]

the part is sandwiched between a ledge on the valve and a special washer that fits over it. There would be no need to press it on anything I think. Cometic gaskets made me some special EGR gaskets at one time. If this material is available in sheets and it would work, they can cut them for me I think. Can you tell me where to get a sample and how expensive is it>
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Ulu]

[Ulu]

https://www.belloframdiaphragm.com/about

That page shows a deep rolling diaphragm, but the VW only needs shallow convolution and can have multiple.

Since the stock shaft must penetrate the diaphragm, there is the weak point for sealing, and also where it will crack. The highest stress is right at the shaft.

But IMO there won't be much stress, as the stroke is so short, right?

How far does the valve come off the seat?

[SGKent]

it moves about 1/8". The design is simple and average life was probably 100,000 miles and 25 years. The bodies usually eat away before the diaphragm does. The tubes fill up with hard coke and have to be cleaned too.

It isn't about profit - there is nothing but money to lose for whomever finances this.

We need:

Name of a company that will make 50 of these for $4 to $7 each.

We need to know what their requirements are to make them, either from a mold of an existing one or a cad drawing. It is too expensive to pay to make a mold.

We need a material to make them out of. It has to be someone who works with this stuff who runs lead on it. When I call these type companies they tell me it is a $10,000 endeavor.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[jtauxe]

[Ulu]

[mrfixit454]

Steve tipped me off to activity here again. I have a few pages to catch up on. need to check my notifications.....

Yes, I am headed to the Machine shop after my work telecon and some lunch. I'll report back this afternoon but I have a feeling they have not cut any metal yet. I had asked for 2 or 3 prototypes to test perhaps made out of aluminum or regular steel at first. Finals will be Stainless steel they tell me.

Ramon
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1978 VW Riviera FI
1963 Notchback - Sitting
1964 Bug - Sitting
2002 Jetta TDI - Pumping out the MPG!
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI

[Ulu]

[RWK]

Determine what injection moldable polymer or TPR will work, then a mold can be built, need its shrink rate and any other peculiarity's it may have. Its 50 year old technology, that's the first step in molding, trying to cast part's is problematic,you don't get the same properties as a molded part. Also any format of 3D cad model will work of the part, IGES,STP, Parasolid, It could be manually measured and entered.
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[Ulu]

@RWK
One doesn't have to wonder if you read this thread.
That's all been covered in detail.

The tech isn't the issue.
It's the cost of limited production.

[SGKent]