Air Cleaners

[magoo-uk]

I'm planning to put a new engine into my 1969/ 1970 model van. Either a B code single port 1600 with a single Solex, or because I'm currently a twin port with twin carbs, I'll maybe put in another 1776 with an upgraded 34 Solex. But I'm getting rid of the twin carbs whatever I decide to go with.

So air cleaners?

I'm aware of the three main variations:

8/67-7/70 With cable controlled valve, controlled by motor thermostat. (211129613G, 211129613H, 211129613L)

8/70-7/71 Thermostatically operated valve, thermostat is on side of airbox. (211129607C)

8/71-7/74 With engine vacuum actuated valve. (211129607A, 211129607F)

I've been offered 211129607C in nice working condition. Will this only work with a twin port and what other ancillaries will I need to make this work as intended?
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magoo classic car mugs

Natural Light Design

[fez68]

i have a 68 wth the original air cleaner (oil bath). i also had a 71 air cleaner. the 71 like you said has its own thermostat tyo open the pre heat valve. the 68 has a cable to the thermostat that actuates it. I opted for the 71 because its allot easier to take the air cleaner off without the cable attached to it. i also dont run a thermostat. LOOK OUT now this thread is going to blow up with people telling me i am nuts for not running a thermostat. but hey i ran this 1641 ( shit those 1641 engines dont last they run way too hot and the cylinders are toooo thin) cross country for 4 months in 1998/1999 and then in 2004 i pulled it snd it sat on a pallet until 2016 when i put it into my 68 westy and i have put another 4000 on it. anyways the air cleaner without the cbale is easier in my opinion. Also i would stay with the stock oil bath as they work great. have fun !

forgot to ad that the the first bus i had the engine in was a 71 with a 71 air cleaner. it is the one you have been offered i believe. oh and i dont have the flaps either hahaha

[SGKent]

Each person has to decide what it is they want. Some people want the higher RPM power of dual carbs, and some people want the reliability of the factory stock set up. Some people use their buses as daily drivers and want something that lasts 80,000+ miles between engine rebuilds. Some people drive their buses 1000 miles a year so if the engine only last 40,000 miles that is a life time of use to them.

Before you decide on a carb, decide why you are unhappy with what you have now. List what you like and what you don't like.

As for the thermostat comment - I lived in SoCal for many years and drove a bus with and without a thermostat in hot (120F) and cold (-15) weather. The engine runs better with one and doesn't cool any better with it gone. There is less metal fatigue with less expansion and contraction. Do as you wish.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Jeff Geisen]

Man, where’d you live in Ca with those temp extremes?
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I Corinthians 4: 1 thru 5

‘63 ragtop - ‘68 single cab

[busdaddy]

[SGKent]

[blue72beetle]

Don't you need to wire open the flapper if you remove the thermostat, so it doesn't suck air from the pre-heat pipe the whole time?
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-Andy-
-1970 Ghia-
-1971 Bus 1776 Microsquirt EFI-

[SGKent]

there are different thermostats at work here. The 1971 used a wax pellet thermostat that opened the pre-heat door on the air cleaner. The engine used a bellows thermostat to open flaps. Those wax pellet thermostats are NLA.

Earlier type 1 bus models used a cable from the bellows and engine thermostat to open and close the air cleaner pre-heat.

Some foreign cars of the period simply had a summer and a winter position on the air cleaner snorkle. However that doesn't always work because my CJ7 pre-heat was vacuum operated with a temperature sensor. One winter climbing a long hill the engine vacuum overcame the switch vent, and opened the pre-heat door climbing Jacumba grade in East San Diego County, set the pre-heat tube on fire, which set the carb on fire, which melted the intake manifold in places. I was able to get the fire out and limp home. I changed the Jeep design so it couldn't happen again by venting the switch outside the air cleaner but the moral is don't use pre-heat except to start the car cold if you can avoid it. The Jeep was pulling air across the exhaust manifold while a bus pulls mostly hot exhaust air from the cylinders and heads.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Wildthings]

If I had my druthers I would like a vacuum or electric operated intake air preheat flapper that was operated by a sensor reading the temperature of the throttle body of the carb. I would want it pouring heat into the air stream until the base of the carb was nice and warm and then moderating the intake air temp from that point on. I am sure that with the zillions of sensor that were out there 30-40 years ago there were one or more that could do this handsomely.

FWIW, my general preference over the years has been extra intake air preheat and less manifold heat.

[magoo-uk]

[Jeff Geisen]

I use T 181 (Thing) air cleaners on my two rigs.
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I Corinthians 4: 1 thru 5

‘63 ragtop - ‘68 single cab

[ccowx]

You can find the oil bath stand, with a bit of looking. You could probably improvise something if you need to as well. Get the diameter right and the clips are part of the air cleaner anyway, so it should work. You might even come up with something cool for us to see!

Wildthings, I am curious, why the more intake heat and less manifold heat? How would you regulate that?

Thanks!

Chris

[Wildthings]

[Abscate]

[ccowx]

Makes sense!

I am planning to use a 1971 aircleaner with the thermostat in it. I am also using headers and I have constructed a box around them to give a (hopefully) very effective preheat. I live in the Yukon and so these things can be more important on a winter hunting trip!

I figure that the intake should be able to maintain a steady 60F or so, even when the outside is at -40. It is also set up with proper intake manifold crossovers, so hopefully this will all be enough.

Further to the OP's questions, I have driven a VW for years with effectively no thermostats or pre-heat in the Vancouver Canada area and I have to say it is better to have all of the bits in place! In summer it was fine, but in winter it could be a bit choppy. Nothing horrendous, but enough that it was noticeably less smooth in cold weather. It also took a very long time to warm up and was prone to stalling for the first few minutes. That climate is probably not very different from most coastal areas of the UK. Wet and cool, most of the time.

Chris

[magoo-uk]

[SGKent]

[ccowx]

I got an air cleaner from a gentleman on this site, where he had used a 3-d printer to create an adapter to use a more modern volvo thermostat rather than the unobtanium version you managed to find.

Chris

PS: The elbow is standard for any type 1 engine I believe, except that in 1974(?) they changed it slightly, along with the new muffler that ducts the manifold heat risers from left to right rather than the other way. I have both and could take pictures later tonight if that helps. I think as long as you use the correct muffler you are fine. If you use headers, I don't think it matters.

[magoo-uk]

What are the part numbers for the fan housing and flaps / cooling air regulators?

113 119 025 J ? I'm confused between bus and beetle tin.

As long as the fanshroud fits that 211129607C air cleaner above and is twin port.
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magoo classic car mugs

Natural Light Design

[SGKent]

the upright breast plate is different between a beetle and bus. Also the engine mount at the rear of the bus is different. A bus has a bar across the back, the case is setup, and drilled for that mustache bar.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin