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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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 Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:26 pm Post subject: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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I have purchased an inline Oil Temp Fan Switch. My oil creeps up to 220+ after just a short 15m run @ 65MPH w/RPM = 3100. I'm running a low compression 1915cc motor. It already has an external Oil cooler/full flow and the cooler has a fan on it. Unfortunately, the fan isn't hooked up because there isn't any way to control it.
The fan is located above the transmission, and it's impossible to reach the cooler hose inputs. So, I wanted to possibly mount the switch right off the oil pump outlet as that would be closest to the true oil temp, right? also, I believe I can install it with the threaded end directly into the opening, bypassing yet another hose clamp scenario.
Can I get your thoughts on such a setup?
Also, I've been using Teflon tape with all of my threaded connectors, is that cool too?
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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Why don't you just install a toggle switch for the fan?
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
| Why don't you just install a toggle switch for the fan? |
Why? |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| kevlarian wrote: |
| fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
| Why don't you just install a toggle switch for the fan? |
Why? |
Easier to do and cheaper. When your temps get up, flip the switch.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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You don't need any sealer, (tape, paste, anything) on the fittings like you have pictured. Using tape instead of paste sealer is another debate altogether.. it can work, and it can go wrong if you're not sure of what you are doing..
I've installed a few fan switches, and the switch doesn't seem to mind where it goes, just put it on the IN (to the cooler) line and it should be fine.
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Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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how does it do after 30 minutes? an hour? Where are you measuring the oil temps?
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| Brian wrote: |
| how does it do after 30 minutes? an hour? Where are you measuring the oil temps? |
Oil temp taken on the underside. Oil pressure relief spring replacement. I've taken it out for 30 minutes and it doesn't get much hotter, maybe 5-10 more. But that's entirely too hot. Oil pressure drops below 10 @ 1000 rpm idle. That's with 20-50w. So if it fits in the oil pump outlet, I'm not adding another point for the oil to leak... |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| esde wrote: |
You don't need any sealer, (tape, paste, anything) on the fittings like you have pictured. Using tape instead of paste sealer is another debate altogether.. it can work, and it can go wrong if you're not sure of what you are doing..
I've installed a few fan switches, and the switch doesn't seem to mind where it goes, just put it on the IN (to the cooler) line and it should be fine. |
like I said. The cooler is listed above the transmission. I can't get to it without dropping the engine/trans. So I'm needing to put it somewhere... Just want to see if I can put it in another threaded location. Would it be better to put it where the inlet is on the engine block? |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| kevlarian wrote: |
| Brian wrote: |
| how does it do after 30 minutes? an hour? Where are you measuring the oil temps? |
Oil temp taken on the underside. Oil pressure relief spring replacement. I've taken it out for 30 minutes and it doesn't get much hotter, maybe 5-10 more. But that's entirely too hot. Oil pressure drops below 10 @ 1000 rpm idle. That's with 20-50w. So if it fits in the oil pump outlet, I'm not adding another point for the oil to leak... |
There's your problem. Dump that road far 20-50 and put either straight 30 or any good 10-30 high zinc oil in it. Your temps will drop.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
| kevlarian wrote: |
| Brian wrote: |
| how does it do after 30 minutes? an hour? Where are you measuring the oil temps? |
Oil temp taken on the underside. Oil pressure relief spring replacement. I've taken it out for 30 minutes and it doesn't get much hotter, maybe 5-10 more. But that's entirely too hot. Oil pressure drops below 10 @ 1000 rpm idle. That's with 20-50w. So if it fits in the oil pump outlet, I'm not adding another point for the oil to leak... |
There's your problem. Dump that road far 20-50 and put either straight 30 or any good 10-30 high zinc oil in it. Your temps will drop. |
I reject that totally. I was running 10w-30 and it was worse... Besides, our engines do run on Multi-Grade 20w-50 per VW!
| Quote: |
Back in the days when Muir was still fixing VWs and oil came in cans, multi-grade oils were still somewhat experimental. Eventually the oil companies managed to formulate them into the flexible product we use today. By the mid-70's, VW had published an engine oil viscosity specification chart that superseded all prior advice on oil selection and they were able to recommend multi-grade oil. Because VW engine technology is stuck in the 70's so are a lot of opinions about oil.
The idea behind multi-grade oil is simple. Take 10w30 as an example: behave like a 10W oil at 32F (in order to protect the engine during startup) and behave like a SAE30 oil at 212F for protection during normal running temperature. This is something that a single-grade oil cannot do. |
This picture is from the 1975 Owners Manual (Type 1 Beetle)
Notice the multi-weight recommendation. It's been super hot here in SoCal lately. hitting 100+ multiple days in a row. The 20w-50 has made a tremendous difference, but it still gets a little too thin on the hot days. Since I have the fan already installed, why not take advantage of it? Right?
http://vw-resource.com/engine_oil.html#grade |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| kevlarian wrote: |
| esde wrote: |
You don't need any sealer, (tape, paste, anything) on the fittings like you have pictured. Using tape instead of paste sealer is another debate altogether.. it can work, and it can go wrong if you're not sure of what you are doing..
I've installed a few fan switches, and the switch doesn't seem to mind where it goes, just put it on the IN (to the cooler) line and it should be fine. |
like I said. The cooler is listed above the transmission. I can't get to it without dropping the engine/trans. So I'm needing to put it somewhere... Just want to see if I can put it in another threaded location. Would it be better to put it where the inlet is on the engine block? |
I just meant the line that has oil going in to the cooler, not that it has to be mounted on the cooler itself. . Mounting it at the pump outlet is fine if you have room.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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Fan switch (thermostatic switch) should be on return side of oil going back to engine from cooler, that way it will only run if oil returning from cooler is hotter than temperature setting of switch....
Want proper thermostatic switch?. ... Forget toggle switch and do it right, overcome complexities of how/where switch placement is, other wise you will never be happy with any shortcut way you do it...
Fitting in picture of OP are self sealing (AN style) and the taper (angle) on end of fitting causes a true metal to metal seal... No Tape or paste needed..
As for tape, sealer debate, get good general purpose paste sealer that is oil/gas/solvent approved, I have serious problems when it comes to tape, and have never been able to get satisfactory wrap on fittings and always end up with bits and pieces inside the plumbing... I hate tapes... Actually tape is not a true sealer, it's a thread lubricant so you can tighten fitting tighter and get better thread seal.... May actually allow you to over tighten connection and cause it to fail...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_seal_tape
This has always been my go to sealer as I can use on home repairs and automotive applications...
https://www.doitbest.com/products/437094
Dale
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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Why do you think 220*F is too hot. Have you ever read what the oil companies say about using their products. Maybe you should ask the oil companies what to use. The oil companies say 220* is safe and you don't need to panic until you see above 235* for dyno oil or above 250* for synthetic oil.
DO NOT confuse normal water temps of a water cooled engine with normal oil temps.
Yes you can put your electric thermostat switch at the engine case where oil enters into the engine. If it were my car I'd just wire the fan to a toggle switch on the dash and turn it on/off whenever it got above 200*
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
Why do you think 220*F is too hot. Have you ever read what the oil companies say about using their products. Maybe you should ask the oil companies what to use. The oil companies say 220* is safe and you don't need to panic until you see above 235* for dyno oil or above 250* for synthetic oil.
DO NOT confuse normal water temps of a water cooled engine with normal oil temps.
Yes you can put your electric thermostat switch at the engine case where oil enters into the engine. If it were my car I'd just wire the fan to a toggle switch on the dash and turn it on/off whenever it got above 200* |
Exactly what I said. Yep...quick and simple to do
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3444
Location: Garage
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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Put it where it goes back into the case. The cooler may cool it off before it goes back with fan off, 220 out is probably colder going back in with fan off.
I wire to a relay that is always hot. That way if the fan is on when you turn off it will cool down the oil and get some heat out from under the vehicle. Some say it doesnt make a difference. New cars do it so why not. Switches are good if you like messing with things. I'd rather not worry about watching gauges and flipping switches at the right time. |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| Thanks for the input guys. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the temp switch. I love the diagram. Really helpful. |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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My oil line comes out of pump cover to filter....out of filter to oil cooler...inline 180 degree temp switch is here...cool oil co.es out of cooler to fitting on case and to the hearings....cooler does it's job well as the oil coming back out gets under 180 degrees while still driving and the fan will shut off. Oil has gotten to 195 once since I installed the cooler(I was doing high rpm runs through 3rd gear on back roads near my house) it it cooled off quickly. This is the first time I've used an external cooler and with a fan and as far as I'm concerned I will not build another striker without one.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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| Back to top |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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| fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
| My oil line comes out of pump cover to filter....out of filter to oil cooler...inline 180 degree temp switch is here...cool oil co.es out of cooler to fitting on case and to the hearings....cooler does it's job well as the oil coming back out gets under 180 degrees while still driving and the fan will shut off. Oil has gotten to 195 once since I installed the cooler(I was doing high rpm runs through 3rd gear on back roads near my house) it it cooled off quickly. This is the first time I've used an external cooler and with a fan and as far as I'm concerned I will not build another striker without one. |
That's exactly what I'm looking for... based on the diagram, putting the temp switch on the cooler OUTPUT seems to be the appropriate solution. But none the less, I love hearing your results. |
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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
Posts: 2047
Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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[quote="jason"]I wire to a relay that is always hot. That way if the fan is on when you turn off it will cool down the oil and get some heat out from under the vehicle. [quote]
That's how mine is wired, I forget where the thermostat switch is, but my fan will run for a minute or two after I shut the car off if it's a hot day and I've been pushing it hard..
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dgsaz
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 579
Location: Phoenix / San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Location of inline Oil Temp Fan Switch |
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A while back I went through the same process. If it help, here is how I wired mine:
Hope this helps.
dgsaz |
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