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Advice re: 62' 23-Window Bus
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Tmiller3
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject: Advice re: 62' 23-Window Bus Reply with quote

I've recently acquired a 1962 VW 23 Window Deluxe Bus which was stored in a storage garage for the past 20 years. I am very much interested in restoring this bus to it's original condition, but am clueless as to how to get started and not screw this up. I'm on tight budget and realize that this is a lengthy process, but I am no deterred. I've taken care of some major things already (i removed the interior and taken out the rotted door panels). I've heard conflicting opinions as to whether to go "engine first" and then worry about everything else, as opposed to doing the body work and then work out. I could use some advice as to what would be the preferred way of going about doing this in order to eventually show this bus.

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scvw
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we see some pics of the interior? It appears like that is the original paint and if so most people will highly recommend doing a preservation to the bus as apposed to a restoration.
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Tmiller3
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Interior Pics Reply with quote

Here are some pictures of the interior. What does 'preservation' entail?
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These are just a few of the photos I have. What do you think?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you've got one helluva nice bus and you will be getting some extremely nice offers for it. Slow down and listen to the advice of others on here. The general consensus for buses this nice and original is to clean them up good and enjoy it how it was intended.
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Tmiller3
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. It's funny, but while I'm working on it, I can't tell you how many people stop their cars and say "I have to ask you....What year is that bus? It's awesome!" Very fun for me so far, and I do NOT plan on selling her. She's going to be my project for life, and I just want to do this correctly. As I was cleaning out the interior and checking out the floorpans, I noticed that there is some serious rust on the floorpans. How much would it run to get these floorpans repaired? Do I need to purchase an actual VW bus floorpan, or can a body shop professional take care of that for me?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd recommend posting in the Split Bus forum, as you'll get a ton more replies and advice over there. (Not that you won't in the Reader's Rides, as well, but there's definitely more bus traffic over in the Split forum).

A preservation entails keeping as much original items, materials, paint, etc. as possible and just cleaning it up and repairing as needed. Don't throw anything away, especially the interior door panels, etc. Even if the fiber board is rotted, the vinyl can usually be cleaned up and reused and will be much more desirable than any reproduction materials.

Looks like a great bus!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know the past history on this bus? Was it ever in Texas? Any remnants of silver/mirrored window tint?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your in Denver you might want to take the long cruise out to Grand Junction and talk to the guys at KCW
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice re: 62' Bus Reply with quote

Tmiller3 wrote:
I've taken care of some major things already (i removed the interior and taken out the rotted door panels).

Oh boy!, I hope you didn't do it in the way they depict on those pimp my ride or overhauli'n shows, save every little scrap and screw because there is nothing you can buy new for any money that is as good as the original stuff, repaired or rebacked panels will always be the best.
Looks like you have a lot of potential there, doing it wrong will only detract from it's value, move slowly and research everything first. If it's a custom you want sell that in it's unmolested state to someone who can appreciate it and use the dough for something more your style. It's your bus and you are free to do what you like, but new parts and paint don't always make it better.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this bus is in fact original paint then you'd be doing it a serious injustice in restoring it. Original condition buses like yours need to be preserved.
My opinion would be to clean it up and get the mechanical end of it completely rebuilt and drive it as is.
Especially if you're on a limited budget you can do all the hard work yourself, i.e. brakes, engine, etc........simple work.

Do it, enjoy it, and drive the hell out of it.

If you have any questions on a preservation and what this means feel free to PM me.

Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not take it anywhere or remove anything else until you have gotten a bunch of opinions so you can make an educated decision. The current trend is toward preservation as there are very, very few original buses left. Stuff that people used to throw away because you could get new aftermarket they now pay big bucks for on the Samba or at swap meets: those panels, the seat covers, etc etc, all sell for hundred of dollars to people looking to go the preservation route. The good news is you bus looks pretty complete, you could get by super cheap by just cleaning it up and have a ride worth tens of thousands and be the envy of most guys at VW shows. I would also stress the importance of keeping it stock and not making any alterations until you consider all the options. Keep asking questions and congratulations on your find!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of sounding like a harsh asshole, if you see this Bus as a restoration project, the best thing that could ever happen to the Bus, is for it to get out of your hands before you start fiddling with it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cant help but agree with the others, if thats og paint a preservation as opposed to restoration makes sense, they are only original once! If you are unsure about rust areas etc take a photo and post it up, you will get plenty of advise and opinions. If you are disassembling it for cleaning take plenty of photos for reference as you go and don't throw anything away until you know all there is to know about 62 deluxes. Looks like a stunning bus enjoy...
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with all the opinions here to preserve this bus as much as possible but understand why this might be a tough decision - I personally would be paranoid about driving a "preserved" bus, constantly scared someone would crack the seat covers or scratch the clock face, another car kicking up rocks on the OG paint etc etc etc. Might be tough if this is going to be your only bus.

This was a big reason why I bought a bus that had already been a bit hacked/repainted by someone else so I could restore it completely without having to worry about destroying anything original! Might be worth considering trading this bus for one that really needs a restoration and some cash to cover a lot of the costs.

Great bus though, I am sure it will work out great whatever you choose - good luck!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimmyH79 wrote:
I agree with all the opinions here to preserve this bus as much as possible but understand why this might be a tough decision - I personally would be paranoid about driving a "preserved" bus, constantly scared someone would crack the seat covers or scratch the clock face, another car kicking up rocks on the OG paint etc etc etc. Might be tough if this is going to be your only bus.

This was a big reason why I bought a bus that had already been a bit hacked/repainted by someone else so I could restore it completely without having to worry about destroying anything original! Might be worth considering trading this bus for one that really needs a restoration and some cash to cover a lot of the costs.

Great bus though, I am sure it will work out great whatever you choose - good luck!


Are you kidding me.....have you ever poured years of blood and sweat into restoring a car or driving one that is freshly painted over a preserved one. The paranoia is ten times the amount on a freshly painted vehicle no matter what it is.
Keep and drive the preserved one all day long!!! Again it'll only be original once........do not restore it at all. Ever.

Side note.....this bus does have some miles on it so it's not like driving the Hornbecker bus or some of the other super low mileage buses out there. This bus already has wear and tear so a rock chip or two will not detract from the perceived value or rarity of it.

Word.
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TimmyH79
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually do disagree, you can alway repaint a restored car or buy another engine block, westy interior part, whatever, if it wasn't original to begin with

If you lose or irrepairably damage an original it can never be fixed or repaired (or at least and still be considered original) for me personally that is more terrifying. Of course you may feel different and that's fine

I had a friend with a totally original Lotus Europa and I kid you not I spent over 2 hours with him one time looking for a nut that he had misplaced during an oil change or some similar minor service - crazy...

You can check out my photos - when that baby is done I plan to drove it often and if it gets some scratches, dents than that is just part of the deal
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I echo almost every opinion so far. Many of us would dream to find a bus in that condition. I'd preserve that bus and start with a beater if you want to cut your teeth at restoring one (like a 13w).

But the scariest thing you say is this, "I'm on a tight budget..."

Those are the last words a restorer of a 23 window should ever say. I'm not saying stop right there and sell it for $75k. But I would say take your time and clean that bus and concentrate on learning about these things. It's only original once. Anything short of an unlimited budget (at least $25k unless you possess al skills) on the restoration is a grave injustice to that piece of history.

PS- The other thing I see is you want to show it. I'd walk right past 10 "restored" deluxe microbuses (and yes, I have) and fill my camera's sd card with pictures of your bus in a preserved state. Many others here have done the same thing. Anyone can restore a bus. Few will ever own what you've got right now.

God I hope you haven't thrown anything away...
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I wonder what the nut looks like.



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the interior photos, removing the interior panels was a BIG mistake. Since I see you haven't posted any replies recently, I'm hoping someone with knowledge of these buses has purchased your bus.

If you're keeping it, STOP!!!!!
Don't do anything else until you have a plan for keeping it original.
Just about anything you do has the potential to decrease the value of that bus by tens of thousands of dollars, and ruin its originality.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is always risky sounding like a harsh asshole! This bus needs no restoration. Keep it in season as the sun in your area bears.It must be stored inside when it pours and or gets cold. This bus should be enjoyed as the time capsule it is. Consider selling it for mucho mula if you truly would not enjoy it in the long run.Thanks for sharing this relic. Please take all these comments in these forums as sincere advice. Enjoy this bus-relic!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, nice Bus! You scored finding this 23-Window.

I agree with all of the people on here saying this Bus should be preserved, not restored.

Tmiller3 wrote:
As I was cleaning out the interior and checking out the floorpans, I noticed that there is some serious rust on the floorpans. How much would it run to get these floorpans repaired? Do I need to purchase an actual VW bus floorpan, or can a body shop professional take care of that for me?

Can you post some photos of the rust damage?
I ask this because I don't see any rust in the typical areas like the rockers under the cargo doors.
Is it under the cargo mat or front floor mat or underneath the Bus?
Either way, those metal parts are available as reproductions.
A body shop could handle this for you but it would be better for a place familiar with Buses to do it, if possible.
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