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Broncoblair
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Los Angeles
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 Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:22 pm Post subject: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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So ever since I propped my deck lid, I've been able to drive realistic distances with my bug. Last Sunday my lady and I decided to drive out to Malibu, the bug died going down a hill, luckily to our destination. I thought it had overheated but it didn't make sense, the engine seemed relatively cool and had no symptoms of overheating.
So I let it cool down we did our thing, 3 hours later no start. The place was going to tow us, I did everything I could on the spot but couldn't get her to start. I noticed I wasn't getting a spark.... I did not have a spare distributor or a spare coil, and had have AAA tow her home. I just NOW got a chance to look.
Im thinking it may be the coil but Im not positive.
Both I had just replaced in the last month, Pertronix. Everything seemed to run ok. But apparently not.....
I dont know which it is but its one of them. Im going to swap the coil first and see if my old Bosch does the trick, hopefully.
So I guess I'll be in the market for a 034 if it's the distributor.... Ugh ! |
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jwp67
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2012
Posts: 655
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| Get rid of the Pertronix and put some points in, you may be O.K. I have had those damn Pertronix points leave me stranded before too. Always carry extra points. |
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Meiang
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2016
Posts: 656
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:21 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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I ran a Lumenition Magnatronic unit in my distributor for many years before I parked the car up. It ran perfectly.
http://autocar-electrical.co.uk/lumenition-range/magnetronic-product-guide
Maybe the Pertronix has issues - there are lots of posts about the switching unit failing. |
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vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7300
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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I've never seen Magnatronix in the US, but it looks to be a re-branded of CompuFire.
OP, If your problem turns out to be the electronic points, like jwp67 said, dump the pertronix. I will not use ANY pertronix products as I've had their coils, SVDA vacuum cans, and points modules all fail, on different cars.
Rather than points, though, I"d go w/a CompuFire unit. I've been using one for years, trouble-free.
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sleeper bird
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2017
Posts: 119
Location: Louisiana
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:59 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| iv had a petronics unit on my 66 thunderbird for 8 years with no problems,not a beetle but same principal. |
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Meiang
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2016
Posts: 656
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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Quote
I've never seen Magnatronix in the US, but it looks to be a re-branded of CompuFire.
I think it may be the other way around.
Mine are 20 Years old. |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| It's funny this debate went on a few years ago points vs. pertronix and in the end nobody changed their mind. Two of my takeaways? The people that like pertronix either don't know how to service and maintain a points system or they've become old and no longer can perform the routine service or they don't want to. But if you cut through all the BS you'll find a lot of pertronix guys carry a spare distributor W/ points in case the pertronix fails, which they do without warning. I've yet to see a person that runs OE points system carry a spare distributor with pertronix in case points have a problem. Why is that? |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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It truly is a sad state of affairs that any new distributor sold today is better used as a door stop.
As to the points or modules debate, I'll say this. I LOVE the idea of the electronic modules and not having to check/reset the dwell and timing. However, I know too many people that were left on the side of the road. Others have had issues with new Bosch condensers as well. Yes, carrying a spare distributor is one solution but where do you stop in deciding what spare parts to carry due to running suspect, Chinese parts? I'll stick with running original, restored VW parts and stay current w/my preventative maintenance. 
BTW, I only use NOS Bosch points and condensers made in the 70's now in my VW's. I also check my dwell and timing every 3k and apply more points cam grease to the distributor. I've never been left on the side of the road due to points or condensers in 35 years of VW ownership.
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
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**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| Sound advice^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| What the hell does this have to do with "Chinese distributors?" You can drop a Pertronix module into a good ole German Bosch it can still leave you stranded. |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| What the hell does this have to do with "Chinese distributors?" You can drop a Pertronix module into a good ole German Bosch it can still leave you stranded. |
chinese pertronix, Wouldn't that be nice? I recall some examples of these bargain aftermarket distributors, Kulteck, Pertronix etc being machined so poorly they wouldn't engage with drive gear or too long wouldn't go all the way down.
So it seems people want shit as cheap as possible and it's built to a price point then made available then consumers are unhappy with the quality. You can't have it both ways which is why a certain few here keep saying rebuild OE components if you want quality. It's a hard idea to sell I guess. |
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beetlenut
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 2983
Location: RI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
chinese pertronix, Wouldn't that be nice? I recall some examples of these bargain aftermarket distributors, Kulteck, Pertronix etc being machined so poorly they wouldn't engage with drive gear or too long wouldn't go all the way down.
So it seems people want shit as cheap as possible and it's built to a price point then made available then consumers are unhappy with the quality. You can't have it both ways which is why a certain few here keep saying rebuild OE components if you want quality. It's a hard idea to sell I guess. |
Sadly it shouldn't be! Quality cost money. You're not going to buy a Porsche for the price of a Neon! It's only hard to sell to cheap VW people who think just because VW's were cheap years ago (they aren't now by the way), that parts should still be cheap. Supply and demand is still in effect last time I checked. No more demand worth making quality parts for old VW's, so the cheap Chinese and third world countries with slave labor seize the opportunity to make a buck. Eventually people learn that lesson. Some the hard way.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76902
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| What the hell does this have to do with "Chinese distributors?" You can drop a Pertronix module into a good ole German Bosch it can still leave you stranded. |
Ed Zackerly.
OP:
I'd first try a different coil. If that doesn't fix it, install points and condenser.
While i'm not a fan of the Pertronix SVDA, it's most likely not the problem... this time.
The distributors have issues with the vacuum canisters failing and their parts/built quality is not on the same level as OG Bosch.
If the points solve your problem, you can ave up for a restored German Bosch or take your chances with the Chinese Pertronix.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Tom Butler
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2016
Posts: 287
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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I feel like a more methodical approach is needed in these situations. I mean I am all for if the distributor or these evil "chinese" distributors are ALL junk calling them out on it but I feel like people just jump to a conclusion and don't take the time to really understand the problem.
OP Good luck on your adventure. I for one have been running a pertronix SVDA dist for a year or so with no problems. Matched with a stock coil.
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1971 Super Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674120
Proud Member Pata De Perro Vw Club
| iowegian wrote: |
| Instead of converting your car to a different color, why not just buy one that is a color you like? |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| What the hell does this have to do with "Chinese distributors?" You can drop a Pertronix module into a good ole German Bosch it can still leave you stranded. |
In the Pacific Northwest were ACVWs are plenty. Most people I know run a Pertronix module in a German distributor. Everyone swears by it. I only know of
one failing in a bus daily driver (15k miles a year) And Pertronix company replaced it. I bought a module for the 72 bus because I thought it sounded like less maintenance. Working on a 72 without a top engine hatch gets old. Here's the thing. I never put it in. Over time I learned how easy dealing with points is. So now I carry a set of points/condenser and a Pertronix module in the bus. Someday I might experiment with the Pertronix. Back to my buddy's failed module. When they sent him a replacement two of them, the ring or whatever it's called was to small of an opening. The 3rd one fit. I've heard the trick is to carve the hole out with a spoon to widen it. I bought those two from him for $20. The 76 bus I bought has Pertronix so now I got spares. Ok starting to ramble on here  So here's what I think based on the Samba and friends.
-Pertronix module in a German dizzy is good. But crap out at a similar rate as new Bosch points and condensers.
-Pertronix distributor is crap.
-Pertronix has good customer service.
-Learn how to set up points and replace condenser. And all that goes into doing so with timing and dwell.
-Good rebuilt German stuff is the way to go but not everyone has the budget. But there are some decent alternatives.
-Chinese labor people have a good work ethic and are really smart. As good as any other country. It's the cheap ass business owners giving them crappy tolerances and materials to work with. And cheap ass consumers not willing to pay for quality.
-Bosch is the new EMPI. 
-A lot of really knowledgeable ACVW folks have different theory on the best approach to fix an issue. But these cars are 40 years old and have different unforeseen variables.
-Many good people on The Samba trying to help one another over a keyboard. Don't take a piss on someone trying to help.
-Lastly, the best tips I get from the Samba is what not to do. Agree or disagree patterns of issues and fixes become clear if you take the time and read the threads. Thanks everyone for helping.
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| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
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I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76902
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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Tom,
There's 3 variables here:
1) The coil - I personally have no opinion on the coil.
2) The Chinese made "SVDA" - while Pertronix advertises "made in America", they're actually referring to the electronic module and not the distributor. The distributor is made in China and the module is installed here. I have personally seen a dozen of them and none tested the same os the original Bosch 0231 170 034 and each other. I've seen a few with vacuum canisters that fail and have heard many more stories. These are advertised to fit VWs 1946-1980's, even though most of the carbs don't have the correct vacuum signal to work with one.
3) Pertronix electronic points replacements - i've seen a number of them just drop dead with no warning. it seems the older ones are of better quality than the newer one. And putting a electronic module in the confines of a distributor with the heat is not the best design. Using a plastic ring with rater large magnets is not very precise. I've measured as much as 4* variance from cylinder to cylinder. Car manufacturers use a precision reluctor to trigger the electronic ignition. this gives exact timing and there is no phase shift.
This is what Mallory uses. Much more expensive, so cheap VW people buy crap.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
Last edited by Glenn on Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tom Butler
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2016
Posts: 287
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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Thanks glen I appreciate the info
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1971 Super Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674120
Proud Member Pata De Perro Vw Club
| iowegian wrote: |
| Instead of converting your car to a different color, why not just buy one that is a color you like? |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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| beetlenut wrote: |
Sadly it shouldn't be! Quality cost money. You're not going to buy a Porsche for the price of a Neon! It's only hard to sell to cheap VW people who think just because VW's were cheap years ago (they aren't now by the way), that parts should still be cheap. Supply and demand is still in effect last time I checked. No more demand worth making quality parts for old VW's, so the cheap Chinese and third world countries with slave labor seize the opportunity to make a buck. Eventually people learn that lesson. Some the hard way. |
Well stated!
I'll be the first to admit that I can be stuck in the 80's VW parts pricing. I can gasp at some of the prices of NOS parts or restored original German pricing. Even rich people (which sadly I'm not) can be cheap or frugal. Maybe it's human nature.
However, in 35 years of VW ownership, I've learned first hand how woeful most aftermarket parts are. I've tried many times to cheap out and buy the more cost effective parts. EVERY SINGLE TIME I was burned. It didn't fit. It didn't work right. It didn't last. People will save $50 dollars buying a cheap part then waste hundreds in labor trying to make it work. If they install it themselves, they will have all kinds of problems, waste tons of time and wonder why their engine isn't running correctly or they will simply tolerate a poorly running engine. Think 009's matched to 34-3s with their horrible flat spots.
I did the cal look, big engine thing back in the early 80's and enjoyed it. Today at my age, I want a low maintenance, reliable VW that runs as designed and is reliable to enjoy. As a result, my VW's are all bone stock running their original restored German fuel pumps, carbs and distributors and all the other parts that were on them when delivered new. Thermostats and flaps. All the tin, etc.. etc..
I've had other Samba people come by my place and drive them. Many comment that this is how they remembered these cars running when new. It's not my amazing mechanical skills but rather, I just run the original restored parts and follow the Bentley in adjusting and maintaining them.
It's no big secret and us veterans with decades of VW experience under our belt are simply trying to share what works for us and others. We are not parrots and repeat "Chinese distributors are crap" because we read it on the internet. We have first hand knowledge of the poor quality of those parts.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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^^^^ That's it right there Bill.
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Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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markj60616
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Should've Listened to You Guys About Chinese Distributors.... |
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"Many comment that this is how they remembered these cars running when new. It's not my amazing mechanical skills but rather, I just run the original restored parts and follow the Bentley in adjusting and maintaining them."
Amen.
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1970 Type 1
original paint
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1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
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2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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