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Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!"
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chrissev2
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

RE: AAZ engine info: change the timing belt and tensioner. Biggest failure point of an AAZ motor (it is interference). The belts are good for 60,000km.

You have no idea how old the belt and tensioner are. When either breaks, the engine will be destroyed.
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chrissev2
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

Team WorldTour wrote:
Alaskaberrys wrote:
I did notice there is what looks to be a cable w/o a knob on the right hand side under the dash. I’ll try that too

That's the choke!
Give that one a try before the 30% petrol idea...


A diesel actually does not have a choke.

The knob you are referring to activates the cold start lever on the injection pump. This lever advances the timing. It is used just to start the engine and then warm up. You should not drive with it pulled out.

You cannot flood a diesel. There is no direct connection between the fuel feed and the engine. A diesel is a compression ignition engine. It works as follows: The engine sucks in as much air as it can (diesels have no engine vacuum, they are basically air pumps, the air flow is not regulated). The piston compresses the air. Just prior to top dead centre, the injection pump injects atomized diesel fuel into a pre-chamber which is snail shaped. The fuel passes through the pre chamber and into the cylinder, igniting spontaneously and providing power to the engine.

When diesels are cold they are hard to start. They use pre heater "glow plugs" to warm up the atomized fuel before it enters the cylinder. If the plugs are not working, a diesel usually will not start. Sometimes if it is very warm outside, or if they are cranked for a long time to build up heat in the cylinders, they will start without pre-glow, but it is very hard to start them this way. It would be impossible to start in cold weather without pre glow.

The injection pump is connected to the timing belt and runs in time with the cylinder head camshaft and the crank shaft. For every two rotations of the crankshaft, there is one rotation of the injection pump pulley (same as the camshaft). Fuel is injected according to the firing order of the engine, which should be 1-3-4-2 on the AAZ

The injection pump is a vane pump. If allowed to run dry, it will not operate unless it is primed with fuel as the vanes will not come out unless there is fuel present. A dry IDI injection pump will not pump fuel and requires priming. You can prime them with a turkey baster.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

also this may belong in the stupid question thread as I do not know.
does this motor suffer from bad keyways on the crank to front pulley?
if so check to see if it's updated, and if not update to the D shaped keyway..
else a broken crank snout can be problematic.

food for thought anyways..

best luck.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

chrissev2 wrote:
Team WorldTour wrote:
Alaskaberrys wrote:
I did notice there is what looks to be a cable w/o a knob on the right hand side under the dash. I’ll try that too

That's the choke!
Give that one a try before the 30% petrol idea...


A diesel actually does not have a choke.

The knob you are referring to activates the cold start lever on the injection pump. This lever advances the timing. It is used just to start the engine and then warm up. You should not drive with it pulled out.

You cannot flood a diesel. There is no direct connection between the fuel feed and the engine. A diesel is a compression ignition engine. It works as follows: The engine sucks in as much air as it can (diesels have no engine vacuum, they are basically air pumps, the air flow is not regulated). The piston compresses the air. Just prior to top dead centre, the injection pump injects atomized diesel fuel into a pre-chamber which is snail shaped. The fuel passes through the pre chamber and into the cylinder, igniting spontaneously and providing power to the engine.

When diesels are cold they are hard to start. They use pre heater "glow plugs" to warm up the atomized fuel before it enters the cylinder. If the plugs are not working, a diesel usually will not start. Sometimes if it is very warm outside, or if they are cranked for a long time to build up heat in the cylinders, they will start without pre-glow, but it is very hard to start them this way. It would be impossible to start in cold weather without pre glow.

The injection pump is connected to the timing belt and runs in time with the cylinder head camshaft and the crank shaft. For every two rotations of the crankshaft, there is one rotation of the injection pump pulley (same as the camshaft). Fuel is injected according to the firing order of the engine, which should be 1-3-4-2 on the AAZ

The injection pump is a vane pump. If allowed to run dry, it will not operate unless it is primed with fuel as the vanes will not come out unless there is fuel present. A dry IDI injection pump will not pump fuel and requires priming. You can prime them with a turkey baster.


Thank you chrissev2! That is exactly the lesson I was looking for! I'm a diesel newbie and though my profession is working on oil burners and such I have ZERO experience with diesel engines. I phoned a with a friend who runs heavy equipment and used to have a diesel rabbit and he was perplexed by this "choke" function. I couldn't tell him what it did, other than it was important to starting. Makes much more sense to me now. As it seems to have suffered some issues itself (dangling free under the dash and no knob) perhaps it's still somewhat 'engaged' and causing issues. Or not working at all. Something else to add to the list to look at.

I've searched the forums and have started looking at the VW diesel forum, but still have not found the resource that comes via the Samba.

Ok, I'm now 1% experienced Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

To make the story even more interesting I found this at the ferry dock last night

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Turns out to be a fellow Gustavian's bus that went missing in Juneau 9 months ago.

Story here https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8576380#8576380
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chrissev2
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
also this may belong in the stupid question thread as I do not know.
does this motor suffer from bad keyways on the crank to front pulley?
if so check to see if it's updated, and if not update to the D shaped keyway..
else a broken crank snout can be problematic.

food for thought anyways..

best luck.


Some of the AAZs had the keyway issue. I believe they changed to the more modern D shaped crank pulley at some point during production. If the motor he has does have the crank pulley with the keyway, he is going to have to fix that issue also, as that is an engine failure waiting to happen......
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chrissev2
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

Alaskaberrys wrote:
chrissev2 wrote:
Team WorldTour wrote:
Alaskaberrys wrote:
I did notice there is what looks to be a cable w/o a knob on the right hand side under the dash. I’ll try that too

That's the choke!
Give that one a try before the 30% petrol idea...


A diesel actually does not have a choke.

The knob you are referring to activates the cold start lever on the injection pump. This lever advances the timing. It is used just to start the engine and then warm up. You should not drive with it pulled out.

You cannot flood a diesel. There is no direct connection between the fuel feed and the engine. A diesel is a compression ignition engine. It works as follows: The engine sucks in as much air as it can (diesels have no engine vacuum, they are basically air pumps, the air flow is not regulated). The piston compresses the air. Just prior to top dead centre, the injection pump injects atomized diesel fuel into a pre-chamber which is snail shaped. The fuel passes through the pre chamber and into the cylinder, igniting spontaneously and providing power to the engine.

When diesels are cold they are hard to start. They use pre heater "glow plugs" to warm up the atomized fuel before it enters the cylinder. If the plugs are not working, a diesel usually will not start. Sometimes if it is very warm outside, or if they are cranked for a long time to build up heat in the cylinders, they will start without pre-glow, but it is very hard to start them this way. It would be impossible to start in cold weather without pre glow.

The injection pump is connected to the timing belt and runs in time with the cylinder head camshaft and the crank shaft. For every two rotations of the crankshaft, there is one rotation of the injection pump pulley (same as the camshaft). Fuel is injected according to the firing order of the engine, which should be 1-3-4-2 on the AAZ

The injection pump is a vane pump. If allowed to run dry, it will not operate unless it is primed with fuel as the vanes will not come out unless there is fuel present. A dry IDI injection pump will not pump fuel and requires priming. You can prime them with a turkey baster.


Thank you chrissev2! That is exactly the lesson I was looking for! I'm a diesel newbie and though my profession is working on oil burners and such I have ZERO experience with diesel engines. I phoned a with a friend who runs heavy equipment and used to have a diesel rabbit and he was perplexed by this "choke" function. I couldn't tell him what it did, other than it was important to starting. Makes much more sense to me now. As it seems to have suffered some issues itself (dangling free under the dash and no knob) perhaps it's still somewhat 'engaged' and causing issues. Or not working at all. Something else to add to the list to look at.

I've searched the forums and have started looking at the VW diesel forum, but still have not found the resource that comes via the Samba.

Ok, I'm now 1% experienced Smile


No problem. I've worked on old vw diesels since around 1992. The new ones are a mystery to me, but anything AAZ and earlier I understand.

Another interesting item regarding diesels is the compression ratio. It is 22 .0:1 on the AAZ, roughly twice the compression of the vw gasoline engine. The increased compression was accomplished by having the pistons come up into the cylinder head gasket.

When they first increased the compression, they had a lot of problems. The old 1.5 diesels had leaky head gaskets and porous engine blocks. Most of the problems were fixed by the time the AAZ came along, but one problem that then appeared on the AAZ was the crank pulley sprocket keyway issue. Basically, on some of the AAZs, the crank pulley is held in place by a key which is inserted into a keyway. This key will come loose and the pulley will wobble loose from the crankshaft, resulting in engine failure. The "fix" for this is to machine the crank pulley shaft into a "D" shape and fit a later TDI type crank pulley.
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2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

chrissev2 wrote:
Alaskaberrys wrote:
chrissev2 wrote:
Team WorldTour wrote:
Alaskaberrys wrote:
I did notice there is what looks to be a cable w/o a knob on the right hand side under the dash. I’ll try that too

That's the choke!
Give that one a try before the 30% petrol idea...


A diesel actually does not have a choke.

The knob you are referring to activates the cold start lever on the injection pump. This lever advances the timing. It is used just to start the engine and then warm up. You should not drive with it pulled out.

You cannot flood a diesel. There is no direct connection between the fuel feed and the engine. A diesel is a compression ignition engine. It works as follows: The engine sucks in as much air as it can (diesels have no engine vacuum, they are basically air pumps, the air flow is not regulated). The piston compresses the air. Just prior to top dead centre, the injection pump injects atomized diesel fuel into a pre-chamber which is snail shaped. The fuel passes through the pre chamber and into the cylinder, igniting spontaneously and providing power to the engine.

When diesels are cold they are hard to start. They use pre heater "glow plugs" to warm up the atomized fuel before it enters the cylinder. If the plugs are not working, a diesel usually will not start. Sometimes if it is very warm outside, or if they are cranked for a long time to build up heat in the cylinders, they will start without pre-glow, but it is very hard to start them this way. It would be impossible to start in cold weather without pre glow.

The injection pump is connected to the timing belt and runs in time with the cylinder head camshaft and the crank shaft. For every two rotations of the crankshaft, there is one rotation of the injection pump pulley (same as the camshaft). Fuel is injected according to the firing order of the engine, which should be 1-3-4-2 on the AAZ

The injection pump is a vane pump. If allowed to run dry, it will not operate unless it is primed with fuel as the vanes will not come out unless there is fuel present. A dry IDI injection pump will not pump fuel and requires priming. You can prime them with a turkey baster.


Thank you chrissev2! That is exactly the lesson I was looking for! I'm a diesel newbie and though my profession is working on oil burners and such I have ZERO experience with diesel engines. I phoned a with a friend who runs heavy equipment and used to have a diesel rabbit and he was perplexed by this "choke" function. I couldn't tell him what it did, other than it was important to starting. Makes much more sense to me now. As it seems to have suffered some issues itself (dangling free under the dash and no knob) perhaps it's still somewhat 'engaged' and causing issues. Or not working at all. Something else to add to the list to look at.

I've searched the forums and have started looking at the VW diesel forum, but still have not found the resource that comes via the Samba.

Ok, I'm now 1% experienced Smile


No problem. I've worked on old vw diesels since around 1992. The new ones are a mystery to me, but anything AAZ and earlier I understand.

Another interesting item regarding diesels is the compression ratio. It is 22 .0:1 on the AAZ, roughly twice the compression of the vw gasoline engine. The increased compression was accomplished by having the pistons come up into the cylinder head gasket.

When they first increased the compression, they had a lot of problems. The old 1.5 diesels had leaky head gaskets and porous engine blocks. Most of the problems were fixed by the time the AAZ came along, but one problem that then appeared on the AAZ was the crank pulley sprocket keyway issue. Basically, on some of the AAZs, the crank pulley is held in place by a key which is inserted into a keyway. This key will come loose and the pulley will wobble loose from the crankshaft, resulting in engine failure. The "fix" for this is to machine the crank pulley shaft into a "D" shape and fit a later TDI type crank pulley.


2% experienced. Thanks! Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

Alaskaberrys wrote:

Ha! Good point Very Happy

Tho, now I think she's starting to feel like I'm paying the price...hasn't been exactly feeling sorry for me, but like "ok, you got your Syncro. How's that working out? Smile "

Careful what you wish for, right?


Just don't tell your wife that these problems are half the adventure/charm of owning one. Syncro owners can always tell each other epic fails for extra laughs around the campfire. The only downside is that these stories usually don't come cheap! Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

syncrodemaya wrote:
Alaskaberrys wrote:

Ha! Good point Very Happy

Tho, now I think she's starting to feel like I'm paying the price...hasn't been exactly feeling sorry for me, but like "ok, you got your Syncro. How's that working out? Smile "

Careful what you wish for, right?


Just don't tell your wife that these problems are half the adventure/charm of owning one. Syncro owners can always tell each other epic fails for extra laughs around the campfire. The only downside is that these stories usually don't come cheap! Rolling Eyes


Very true! Good stories don't come without scars, right? Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

So an update.

After one last squirt of starting fluid to get off the ferry I finally was driving down the road to home. Been waiting awhile for that Cool
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


...oh right, towing the rescue bus too. Better not forget to drop that off before I get home Rolling Eyes
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Next, unload everything at the shop
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Take in minute to jump the neglected Safari that seems to have developed a battery drain...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


...and the mandatory stylin' photo op at the house before turning it off.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then it sat for 10 days... Sad Back to work for me, making money to pay for this VW addiction, and I promised "No More Starting Fluid for you" until I could figure out what was up. New glow plugs? Relay or fuse bad? Something worse?


Today, pulled the decking off the back (no engine compartment lid) and, tho I'm a complete novice as to diesels I could tell pretty quick just what might be wrong...note red wire
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

That goes to the glow plugs sure enough. I'm thinking the barge company might have dropped her a tad hard? Wire was pretty rotten and would not have taken much to sever it - cut almost an inch off to find bright copper. Fixed. Fired right up. Went for a drive Cool

Now just got figure out what the rest of the parts are Smile
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

Get some black plastic wire sheaths for your fuel lines.
Also, look up the 'Pimp Your Glow Plugs' thread. It's a damn good write up, and it will guarantee a quick start even in winter.
Also, get in touch with Vanistan, and get the tencent oil cooler kit (I think the fan would be optional (not needed) for you given your location).
Get a snorkel, and move your intake up as high as possible (the Diesel will run submerged if it is correctly prepped!).
Enjoy! You won't get anywhere first, but you will get further down the trail than anyone else!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

Team WorldTour wrote:
Get some black plastic wire sheaths for your fuel lines.
Also, look up the 'Pimp Your Glow Plugs' thread. It's a damn good write up, and it will guarantee a quick start even in winter.
Also, get in touch with Vanistan, and get the tencent oil cooler kit (I think the fan would be optional (not needed) for you given your location).
Get a snorkel, and move your intake up as high as possible (the Diesel will run submerged if it is correctly prepped!).
Enjoy! You won't get anywhere first, but you will get further down the trail than anyone else!


Thanks for the tips, will look into those! I may have to look into a snorkel - it’s rained everyday since I brought it up!

I thought those clear fuel ones looked a tad exposed. I don’t imagine it’s quite as risky as unprotected gas lines, but still looks like it could cause trouble.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

This was something you asked about in a different thread, but I think this is a better place for my answer.
I used some boat hardware I found at my local 'Hardware Store' for mounting my Fuel Enricher Lever....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It was a perfect fit, and I think it works better than the original plastic bits...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

My 1.6 liter 1983 diesel Vanagon started without glowplugs or advance right up, only when the temp got down to about 20 F did I find the need to glowplug it.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
My 1.6 liter 1983 diesel Vanagon started without glowplugs or advance right up, only when the temp got down to about 20 F did I find the need to glowplug it.


A local friend that had a diesel rabbit said his would fire off without glow plugs if he turned it over long enough. Not so with this one - at least outside in the mid 40’s. It’s sitting in the heated shop today, I’ll have try w/o glowplugs.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

Team WorldTour wrote:
This was something you asked about in a different thread, but I think this is a better place for my answer.
I used some boat hardware I found at my local 'Hardware Store' for mounting my Fuel Enricher Lever....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


....

It was a perfect fit, and I think it works better than the original plastic bits...


That looks simple enough. Even our little hardware store probably has that, thanks!

I’m not sure about sourcing the handle tho - haven’t looked into it yet. Did yours come with the donor motor or is it a third part add? I figured it must be as cable length would differ quite a bit I’d think.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

MY 90 1.6 JX doka had the enrichment cable as oem. I'm also swapped to AAZ. My pump is a bit questionable (had to give it an overnight IV drip of diesel purge to get it to fire the first time) and it does tend to hard start as temps drop without the enrichment handle pulled out. The white smoke on start up is likely 'smoked diesel', unburnt fuel during initial start up. If it goes away after it's warmed up then this is likely the case.
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0to60in6min
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Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3416
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
0to60in6min is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

hi Mark,

looking good man... looking good...

on mine the plastic shifter components were busted by the dock driver(s), must be the US side driver assuming they don't know how to drive stick shift Very Happy

I was able to drive it home but I have to replace the whole thing except the shifter lever...

dan
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Alaskaberrys Premium Member
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Joined: June 19, 2016
Posts: 1001
Location: SE Alaska
Alaskaberrys is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Another syncro Doka arrives!... or "WTF did I just do!?!" Reply with quote

0to60in6min wrote:
hi Mark,

looking good man... looking good...

on mine the plastic shifter components were busted by the dock driver(s), must be the US side driver assuming they don't know how to drive stick shift Very Happy

I was able to drive it home but I have to replace the whole thing except the shifter lever...

dan


Dang, these guys are hard on our VW’s! I guess when your unloading 400 “same ‘ole boring plastic cars” in one night, you get excited when there’s a 26 year old funny looking VW waiting for abuse!

Sorry to hear you got the same treatment - AND getting stuck with the hefty import tax too!
_________________
'91 Westfalia, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2.1L 2wd Auto
'91 T3 Syncro Doka, Escorial Green 1.9L TD AAZ “Gremian” (to provoke, irritate, exasperate, vex...)
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