83.5 Westfalia Temperature Gauge

[lucianosanchez]

Hi all, I am posting here because I have run out of patience with this thing. I've purchased 4 temperature gauges plus the one that came with the van and I still cannot get it to work correctly... I am going to post what happens with each gauge.

1. The original gauge that came with the van when I purchased it. This gauge read the engine temperature PERFECT but the LED constantly blinked. I installed the relay under the dash but the issue still happened.

2. An awesome member here (GreggK) offered to gift me gauge after I posted something on someone else's thread. This gauge resolved my constant blinking issue BUT the gauge read too low and the needle seemed to scrape the backing plate so I would have to tap the dash to get it to move.

3. I purchased one from the classifieds here (ZSI). Gauge arrived but it was faulty. Blinking light operated normal BUT the gauge read too high (almost at the end of the spectrum). Used this thread to troubleshoot and found the gauge to also be faulty also.https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=464113

4. Purchased a gauge from eBay. This gauge also appeared to be faulty. When I plugged it in the LED did not come on at all. Didn't even test the needle with this one. I messaged the seller and he sent me a new one.

5. This is where I am today. Number 5! What ever happened to third time is a charm? haha. Anyway, I received the replacement gauge from the eBay seller plugged it in to the cluster and this one blinks constantly, the same as the original one. I am literally back to step one with the constant blinking light. I have not tested the gauge on this one yet (I haven't driven the van).

So what do I do ??

I was planning on "bench testing" the gauges I have out of the van to triple check if they work or not. Does anyone know how to bench test the gauge? I don't think they are 12v...?

Can anyone help me figure this out or provide some tips on what to do, I am pretty upset that with FIVE gauges I still do not have a working outcome

As always, thank you in advance.

[EDIT] I forgot to mention that I have also replaced the blue foil in the cluster with a new Vanagon.org cluster kit.

Luciano
_________________
1983.5 Aussan Brown Westfalia | 2016 to 2020
1983.5 Beige Westfalia | 2019 to Current

[E1]

Have you tested your blue cap like this well-known celebrity?:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RT8Ew43mNg4
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[Paulbeard]

What makes the light blink? In other words, what is the blinking light telling you?
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

[lucianosanchez]

[E1]

Sorta kinda semi-related in a sense, for the kiddies my van never got hot with a bad blue cap.

Just makes the light blink like a tornado over a Christmas tree display.

Good luck on this. I find it impossible to imagine it's an issue with five bad gauges, but am pretty gullible.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[AZ Landshaper]

Yeah..............

5 bad gauges?
What happens when you test the wire that feeds the gauges? I dont profess to know anything about this stuff (Im a horticulturalist). I do know that by the time I have a third bad alternator, I start to suspect theres another issue. BTDT recently.
Im gonna say the two that blink in similarity are probably your best bets and theres some other issue at hand. Look beyond the gauge. Worst thing that could happen is u completely understand the system and can help the next owner of an 83.5 westfalia van.

Someone here knows the values produced by VW tester 1301 used to troublesjoot the coolant temp display. Id be tempted to run a meter btw the sender and ground to see what happs as the temp rises.

Beyond that I can empathise with anyone that removes the foil. I was contending with that this evening while my kids were in swim practice. You should have seent he face on the guy in the waiting room when I came in with my dash display in my hand. He was more than a little surprised.
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Support Small Business.

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85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug.

[djkeev]

I strongly suspect your blue foil or connections to it.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[B.O.B.Wanders]

Look upstream from the gauge. If I recall on a 1.9L the blinking can either be from overheating (check the coolant temp sender) or low coolant level (check coolant level sender in expansion tank). Work back from there. Wiring? A grounding issue?
_________________
83.5 WBX 2WD Assuan Brown Westy, B.O.B.

"It feels good to be lost in the right direction” - unknown

[lucianosanchez]

I agree that 5 bad gauges is unlikely. So is there a way to test each gauge out of the van? It is far easier to troubleshoot the cars cooling system and components once I know that the gauge that's in there is good. So does anyone know how to test the gauge out of the van?
_________________
1983.5 Aussan Brown Westfalia | 2016 to 2020
1983.5 Beige Westfalia | 2019 to Current

[djkeev]

Your cluster should have a voltage stabilizer. Check that for delivering 9.5-10.5 volts.

Your level sender is either on or off, they do crack and go bad, also get corroded.

The temp sender is simply a variable ground.

Check your wiring connectors for corrosion, also tgat the sender is well grounded.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[E1]

[djkeev]

I only have an 86 cluster, I do know the earlier ones are different but.....

Here is my cluster.....

A closeup of the voltage regulator....

The terminals are marked but I don't know the key to what they mean.

One leg of the three is energized by the ignition key, the other go to power the gauges and idiot lights..... the third???

It should be a simple matter of probing the terminals with a DC volt meter, one should be 12v + the others should read within specs.


Looking at the blue foil, my guess is that terminall 088 is 12 v power.

Dave.
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[E1]

Thanks, Dave!

Still missing on personal capacity...

Example, to test my battery I use the 20 setting on DCV.

Same setting here?

In general I don't quite get what setting to use for what. I presume one uses 20 DCV as it's the first setting above 12 volts?
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[djkeev]

Yep! ^^

Start at a test setting higher than anticipated.

No 12v system will be above 20 v
But once you probe and the meter only reads 5v change your meter limit to get a more accurate reading.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[crazyvwvanman]

The little voltage regulator device has 3 legs.

One leg is ground in.
One leg is nominal 12 volts in.
One leg is stabilized 10 volts out.

Inside the temp gauge is a tiny circuit board for the blinking light. The circuit board needs a clean ground and 10 volts for it to work as intended. The voltage to the gauge must not be much higher or lower than 10 volts, within .5 volt of 10 volts.

Problems with the gauge reading and/or blinking light issues can be ground related as well as 10 volt related. Also problems elsewhere with the cluster and/or cluster wiring can affect test readings and behavior of the temp gauge functions. This makes it tricky for a novice to measure everything in ways that give good results and to understand what they are seeing.

One test hint. When you turn on the key the light should blink a few times and then stop blinking, for at least several seconds of stoppage. If it never stops, the problem is up front. If it stops and then soon starts again the problem is likely in the engine compartment. This test is just with key on, not starting engine.

Mark

[kamzcab86]

[lucianosanchez]

I have a pretty new vanagon.org cluster kit but I will check the voltage stabilizer when I get home. On the kit, it is easy to check since they left it on the outside of the enclosure.

I've already replaced all the spade connectors on the ground stars and verified I'm getting good grounds, but I can double check this. Anyone know where the ground for the cluster goes to exactly? I also replaced the connection on the sender. I replaced the level sensor as well even though the old one was good (I tested it).

Why would I be getting different results with different gauges though? One of the gauges worked fine as far as the LED goes but read too high of a temperature on the needle. I tested the gauge using the resistor tricks on the engine side and it turned out to be a bad gauge according to the thread.

[E1]

Thanks for the info!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[AZ Landshaper]

Hells yeah. This was a great post. I had the same Q as E1 and having a funky fuel guage have wondered about the famed resistor behind the dash display. Well now I know. Ill be testing mine this evening at swim practice. Fun ahead.

I see this info on page 19.20 or so in the Bentley. Sometimes Bentley speaks in tongues.
_________________
Support Small Business.

-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug.

[lucianosanchez]

Last night I did some testing. The voltage stabilizer on the Vanagon.org kit is working correctly. I get 12V on the left pin and 9.90-9.91V on the right prong. I also tested the voltage at the temp gauge screws and got the same 9.90.

With one gauge in the cluster and another gauge on the dash with alligator clips connecting the three prongs I got different results. The gauge in the cluster kept blinking after the 5 second startup while the one connected with alligator clips stopped after 5 seconds. To me, this tells me that the components in the Vangon.org kit are working right.

I also verified that I was getting good ground on all of the ground connections on the cluster pins. Both grounds are getting good continuity.

Could this be an issue with the relay for the gauge? A while ago I noticed that the van did not have one so I went to my FLAPS and purchased one. Can anyone confirm that my van does indeed need one?

Anything else I can try? Thanks
_________________
1983.5 Aussan Brown Westfalia | 2016 to 2020
1983.5 Beige Westfalia | 2019 to Current