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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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 Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:16 pm Post subject: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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I am rebuilding a 2.1 at my local college. I am thinking of doing the big displacement 2.5. Engine is apart and cases are split. Things look good besides a little piston slap on cylinders 1 and 3. Still need to finish cleaning and start our measuring portion before we start machining. I am trying to save money because this class is expensive! And Engine building is expensive!
2 Part question:
My first Newb/noob question was, when people refer to the common broken rod of a 2.1, do they mean the push rods? Or the connecting rod only? Or the Connecting rod bolts that go around the bearing and crank? Or the wrist pins that connect the connecting rod to the pistons? I am confused and trying to learn. 
Also what pieces can I reuse and what pieces should I absolutely throw away.
Thanks in advance!
-AL |
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1988M5
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016
Posts: 674
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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" when people refer to the common broken rod of a 2.1, do they mean the push rods? Or the connecting rod only? Or the Connecting rod bolts that go around the bearing and crank? Or the wrist pins that connect the connecting rod to the pistons? "
From my understanding the 1.9L connecting rods had regular bolts on the big end (crankshaft), the latter 2.1L engines had stretch bolts aka torque to yeild, they fail and cause massive damage. The fix is to use 1.9L connecting rods on any 2.1L re-build.
Brian |
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| 1988M5 wrote: |
" when people refer to the common broken rod of a 2.1, do they mean the push rods? Or the connecting rod only? Or the Connecting rod bolts that go around the bearing and crank? Or the wrist pins that connect the connecting rod to the pistons? "
From my understanding the 1.9L connecting rods had regular bolts on the big end (crankshaft), the latter 2.1L engines had stretch bolts aka torque to yeild, they fail and cause massive damage. The fix is to use 1.9L connecting rods on any 2.1L re-build.
Brian |
Thank you for the information! Greatly appreciated... I did some searching on the site and read many threads and it is helping. I am still learning terms so I need the oversimplification of the process  The machine shop is insane and our teacher is a real pro. But he doesn't do much besides yell that we are making a mess. I wish he taught a little more. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16505
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| Do some research before making that decision, bigger is not always better in the long run. |
agreed. And, not a major difference in HP/torque
2.5
*9.4:1 compression, with 110 hp & 150 ft.lbs of torque
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=24071
2.3
*9.0:1 compression, with 100 hp & 140 ft.lbs of torque
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=24111
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| Little update: I have learned a lot!!!!! ...Not a fan of my teacher, he is a waste of space. He is on his phone selling parts on craigslist, showing his friends around, sexist and racist, and plays favorites. I have learned more about his home remodeling than anything about engines..... ANYways, thanks to some of the local shops and people I have learned and been helped out a lot, so I am thankful for that! |
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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Pictures
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6833
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| ALstew wrote: |
| Little update: I have learned a lot!!!!! ...Not a fan of my teacher, he is a waste of space. He is on his phone selling parts on craigslist, showing his friends around, sexist and racist, and plays favorites. I have learned more about his home remodeling than anything about engines..... ANYways, thanks to some of the local shops and people I have learned and been helped out a lot, so I am thankful for that! |
Just kiss his butt and get a passing grade for the class - then if you choose make a complaint to the lower office. (I don't consider all colleges to be higher forms of education!)
Do a search on here for a member named "tencentlife" his posts are worth more then the weight of a computer. He, and many more in this forum will educate you!
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| Steve M. wrote: |
| ALstew wrote: |
| Little update: I have learned a lot!!!!! ...Not a fan of my teacher, he is a waste of space. He is on his phone selling parts on craigslist, showing his friends around, sexist and racist, and plays favorites. I have learned more about his home remodeling than anything about engines..... ANYways, thanks to some of the local shops and people I have learned and been helped out a lot, so I am thankful for that! |
Just kiss his butt and get a passing grade for the class - then if you choose make a complaint to the lower office. (I don't consider all colleges to be higher forms of education!)
Do a search on here for a member named "tencentlife" his posts are worth more then the weight of a computer. He, and many more in this forum will educate you! |
I have read and re-read a lot of his posts! |
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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Parts going in
DPR stroked 84.5 crank
96mm pistons
Steve long racing cam
scat rods with arp bolts
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 450
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| One thing that I learned when working on a 2.1 engine was not to use the oil pump outer gasket supplied with the Victor Reinz gasket set. It is at least 0.010" too thick and will cause oil pressure issues at idle once the engine is up to temperature. Once I removed the gasket and just used a sealant, the oil pressure was fine. |
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
| One thing that I learned when working on a 2.1 engine was not to use the oil pump outer gasket supplied with the Victor Reinz gasket set. It is at least 0.010" too thick and will cause oil pressure issues at idle once the engine is up to temperature. Once I removed the gasket and just used a sealant, the oil pressure was fine. |
Okay, appreciate the tip! |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4800
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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be sure to clearance the pump gears to the cover. my CB Performance pump had zero clearance between the gears and the cover but came with a super thin gasket that put my clearance at about .0045", good enough. the Victor pump gasket was waaaay too thick as mentioned above. and you may not even NEED a gasket and get away with just sealer if the clearance is such.
it's an important step for these engines as they frequently have oil pressure issues.
here's what i'd done during my recent rebuild
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=684713&start=0
-dan |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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Well... I'm super curious. GW is now using Scat cranks at 1k a pop vs dpr welded units... plus pistons with proper pin height and volume for CRatios within reason. What piston set are you using? What are the dbl "ring" marks at the bottom of the cylinders pictured?
J |
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| jberger wrote: |
Well... I'm super curious. GW is now using Scat cranks at 1k a pop vs dpr welded units... plus pistons with proper pin height and volume for CRatios within reason. What piston set are you using? What are the dbl "ring" marks at the bottom of the cylinders pictured?
J |
I am not too sure what those ring marks are on the cylinders. My teacher wouldn't let me bore and hone my cylinders in class so I took them to Q&E machine shop and they said the "hone" brought out the existing ring pattern. I was thinking of getting a second opinion.
I am not sure what pistons I have have. I believe they are the same as gowesty. I purchased the everything from a local engine builder I know. He had built the engine and drove the van around, but when he sold it he returned the engine to stock and kept everything. |
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:34 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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also, is this concerning? I see a little bit of pitting between the cylinders. Will this seal up with rtv?
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Bulli Klinik
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005
Posts: 2079
Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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I wouldn't be overly concerned with the pit. I would polish the sealing surface where the seal goes. If it makes you sleep better, put a very small dab of ultra-copper on it. I prefer to lube the lower O-ring with WD40 during installation.
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Bulli Klinik
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| ALstew wrote: |
| jberger wrote: |
Well... I'm super curious. GW is now using Scat cranks at 1k a pop vs dpr welded units... plus pistons with proper pin height and volume for CRatios within reason. What piston set are you using? What are the dbl "ring" marks at the bottom of the cylinders pictured?
J |
I am not too sure what those ring marks are on the cylinders. My teacher wouldn't let me bore and hone my cylinders in class so I took them to Q&E machine shop and they said the "hone" brought out the existing ring pattern. I was thinking of getting a second opinion.
I am not sure what pistons I have have. I believe they are the same as gowesty. I purchased the everything from a local engine builder I know. He had built the engine and drove the van around, but when he sold it he returned the engine to stock and kept everything. |
I am going to guess the OP left the pistons sitting in the cylinders in the upside down position for a long time with no lube and thus there was a tad of corrosion going on. Don't think it will hurt much, though you might want to use new rings. |
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ALstew
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016
Posts: 176
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Rebuilding 2.1 WBX Question |
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| I tried to make progress today in class but it turns out I got the wrong piston rings. I needed rings for 97mm bore 2.5 engine and I was sent 96mm bore 2.45 rings. Go Westy let me exchange the rings and they have them in stock so not too much time lost. |
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