| Author |
Message |
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: 71 super, double spring plate |
 |
|
So as I'm fighting my way through making spring plate adjustments, I realizing something is different about mine than the videos and pictures I find. I have a double spring spring plate.
Does the fender need to come off to remove the spring plate entirely ? I definitely want to switch over to a single. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
| Multi69s wrote: |
| Why, with the double spring plates you also get the longer torsion bars. Its a well known fact that the longer torsion bars give a better ride, since they don't wind up as quickly. Unless there is some other reason, I would leave it be. |
I had not come across that info... so I can't run same bars with single plates ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
If the spring plate cap looks like this:
You are running the long torsion bars.
If they look like this:
You are running the short torsion bars.
You can get single spring plates to run on the longer torsion bars, but I'd keep the duals. VW only used the dual spring plates for the first couple of years on the IRS Type 1s. However, due to the added strength, they are on all years of the Type 3s (which are a heavier car). In my opinion, your setup gives the best performance in two areas: because of the longer torsion bars, you get a better ride. Also, because of the dual spring plates, you gain more lateral strength, and better handling when making hard turns.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
Roger all... You guys talked me into it...
My passenger side plate cover was very rusted. One of the bolt hole bosses fell off while prying it back...
Will these work ? on my car ?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1970743
Looks the same |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
| Multi69s wrote: |
| Yes the type 1 and type 3 parts are interchangeable. I have both types of cars and have mixed and matched parts many times. |
Excellent, thank you !!! It looks like they're the same but I didn't want to assume. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
Oh... One other question...
I have replacement Urethane bushings... For the inner one, to get the spring plates off to replace it, do I have to remove the fender, or do I just have to be patient and manipulate things correctly ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
| Well, not sure how good the finish is, but CIP1 had a brand new chrome set for the same price shipped, so I went with those |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chris333
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2017
Posts: 656
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
| Double spring plates were used around 1969-1971ish. Read somewhere it was because Porsche was using them for racing, but later found out 1 was fine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
I found urethane spring plate bushings to be noticeably harder in terms of the "quality" of the ride, felt like it was bottoming out. I switch to rubber ones and felt it was softer on bumps w/them.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
| RVAmike97 wrote: |
Oh... One other question...
I have replacement Urethane bushings... For the inner one, to get the spring plates off to replace it, do I have to remove the fender, or do I just have to be patient and manipulate things correctly ? |
I've never read anything about having to remove the fender to do this. I bought the replacement bushings way back to adjust my rear suspension but haven't gotten to it yet, only read up on the procedure. (Just skeered I guess!  )
This might be helpful to you if you haven't seen it already:
http://www.vw-resource.com/rearaxle.html
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
Appreciate all the info and input guys... I definitely enjoy learning stuff here...
I decided on urethane because I do want some rigidity in some areas. I may autocross this car, and it also needs to hold up to the 2332 I have under construction.
I didn't get out there and fool with it today, but it sure seemed like the tube cover on the outside of the spring plate would not clear the fender. I'll check that link out |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
If you are looking at autocross and other "spirited" forms of driving, then your setup with the urethane bushings will work good. However, from personal experience, I would NEVER install urethane bushings for a DD. You can lube them up all you want, and they will probably be quite for a year or so. However, after that, they will squeak, squawk, groan and creak with every little movement. My Baja makes noise from just getting in, and out of the car.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobinphx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2016
Posts: 165
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
| On my 69 with dual spring plates, I removed the fenders. It made life a whole lot easier. Watch out for that spring plate, its under a lot of pressure, so keep your hands, feet and legs out of the way when removing it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
| Multi69s wrote: |
| If you are looking at autocross and other "spirited" forms of driving, then your setup with the urethane bushings will work good. However, from personal experience, I would NEVER install urethane bushings for a DD. You can lube them up all you want, and they will probably be quite for a year or so. However, after that, they will squeak, squawk, groan and creak with every little movement. My Baja makes noise from just getting in, and out of the car. |
Yeah, I have urethane installed all over on my truck. Same deal, it squeaks like crazy. When I get really motivated and tired of it I tear it apart and lube as necessary about every other year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4416
Location: Stuck in Ohio
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
I removed just the few bolts on the front third of the rear fenders. Unzipping that allowed me to flex that part of the fender away from the body, providing the clearance I needed.
I have bright red rubber in there so I think it might be urethane. I haven't noticed any noise yet. It's lowered and has a big set of anti sway bars. It corners like a slot car. If people are in the back seat they really get bounced around but that's because I think I am actually bottoming out on the rubber bump stops with only an inch of travel or so. I like the stiff ride but its not a daily driver so maybe that would get old.
Sounds like you've got quite a motor in the works so you'll probably like the stiffer ride, and won't be able to hear anything but the purr of that beast anyway!
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:25 am Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
Like Buggee, I've always had to remove 5 fender bolts to get the spring plate cover off of the torsion bar. This is on my '72 and '74, both of which have the longer torsion bars.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RVAmike97
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017
Posts: 140
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:43 am Post subject: Re: 71 super, double spring plate |
|
|
Ok, cool... Thanks guys... Still haven't gotten back out there to mess with it yet... The wife has been giving me the look over how much time I've been spending on it, so I figured I'd stay away from the garage over the weekend.
Whoever had the paint job done had it painted with the seals and all. I'm trying to keep it looking decent as long as I can until I'm ready to give the body a makeover, so I think if I run a razor knife along the outer edge of the fender bead that should allow a clean breakaway to pull the fender out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
