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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2664
Location: Long Island, NY
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 Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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I've been looking at the possibilities of installing a radio unit in my '63 Beetle.
I will not cut the dash.
Originally I wanted an authentic radio but they are too rare and expensive for what you get, sound-wise.
So then I looked at aftermarket radios to fit the dash. Most of them seem to junk.
I went to local car stereo place a few days ago, and they showed me some budget 12 volt stuff that I thought I could install with a 6v-12v step-up converter. Both speakers and the radio would be in boxes that would be placed in the bin behind the rear seat, and then covered over when not in use.
I was looking online and found the idea to use a separate (maintenance-free), dedicated 12v battery to power the stereo. I know that there are few things I should be aware of with such as setup, mainly power drain when off, and external charging, both of which I have solutions for.
So what I want to know is, how many amps should the battery be rated for to power a basic AM/FM radio, or does that depend on the radio?
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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| scottyrocks wrote: |
So what I want to know is, how many amps should the battery be rated for to power a basic AM/FM radio, or does that depend on the radio? |
The latter.
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31373
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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| scottyrocks wrote: |
| So what I want to know is, how many amps should the battery be rated for to power a basic AM/FM radio, or does that depend on the radio? |
A basic AM/FM radio, cassette stereo, or CD stereo requires very few amps, typically less than 3 amps (these have a dedicated in-line fuse).
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| I went to local car stereo place a few days ago, and they showed me some budget 12 volt stuff that I thought I could install with a 6v-12v step-up converter. |
I think the 6v-12v step-up converter is the best and easiest idea for your 6 volt VW.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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MXDesa
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2014
Posts: 65
Location: Poughkeepsie, New York
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:23 am Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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This is an interesting topic. I'm sure many of us have thought about adding an upgraded sound system to our 6 volt vehicles.
I'd be curious to know how well a 6 Volt generator could keep up with maintaining a 12V battery with a step up converter? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31373
Location: Hot Arizona
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:44 am Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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| MXDesa wrote: |
This is an interesting topic. I'm sure many of us have thought about adding an upgraded sound system to our 6 volt vehicles.
I'd be curious to know how well a 6 Volt generator could keep up with maintaining a 12V battery with a step up converter? |
the 6 volt system really cant charge a 12 volt battery effectivly, if it could folks would swap in 12 volt batteries and the magic converter and thered be no need for 12 alternator swaps. The radio converters dont have the current capacity to run the battery, if the headlamps get turned on, youd likely exceed the converters capacity.
the best bet is a converter sold for this purpose and connect only to the stereo, there is no need to lug around a second battery. that is what I have used even 30 years ago to power my stereo cassette player in my 61. there might be folks who make a stereo for 6 volts (retro sound maybe?) some fancy stereos made for classic cars are switchable 6 or 12 volts, all done internally, or buy the radio 6 to 12 converter and run a standard 12 volt stereo. Id not add an extra battery for the stereo, not an user freindly solution, and probably will cost a lot more money than a converter.
Make sure the 6 to 12 stereo converter is rated for the current of the new radio.
good luck, keep up the tunes!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:14 am Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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Might I make a suggestion? It's simple. Clean. Doesn't modify your car...
Option 1 -
Just put a nice Bluetooth rechargeable speaker in your car. You can sit it in your back seat, and connect your android/iPhone/ipod to it when you get in. "radio stations" broadcast of the iHeartRadio app, and your choices for quality music are nearly endless (unlike radio).
Obviously volume is important as the interior isn't the quietest on a bug, so here is a list to some LOUD Bluetooth portable speakers:
http://www.bassheadspeakers.com/loudest-bluetooth-speakers/
There are many others. A friend of mine has a Bose one in his back seat and it sounds GREAT. And when you go to a car show, you have some tunes you can play while parked 
Option 2 -
This is the option I went with. Install an amplifier with BUILT IN blue tooth. No head unit required. Just an amp. This would require your 6v->12v step up unit as discussed previously. but it is just a simple AMP. You can see my setup (although I am already running 12v so I don't have a step-up but you could install it the same way).
Link
This gives you a real stereo. Again, using your phone as the "radio" but it doesn't require any mods to the car. The amp can connect directly to the battery, and (except for a 'ignition' wire to tell the amp when to turn on) it requires no wiring throughout the car. Using a stereo will still require you to run wires and speakers and all sorts of stuff. I can remove my entire setup in less than 10 minutes, and install it back again in as many minutes.
Just thoughts... |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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| kevlarian wrote: |
Might I make a suggestion? It's simple. Clean. Doesn't modify your car...
Option 1 -
Just put a nice Bluetooth rechargeable speaker in your car. You can sit it in your back seat, and connect your android/iPhone/ipod to it when you get in. "radio stations" broadcast of the iHeartRadio app, and your choices for quality music are nearly endless (unlike radio).
Obviously volume is important as the interior isn't the quietest on a bug, so here is a list to some LOUD Bluetooth portable speakers:
http://www.bassheadspeakers.com/loudest-bluetooth-speakers/
There are many others. A friend of mine has a Bose one in his back seat and it sounds GREAT. And when you go to a car show, you have some tunes you can play while parked
Option 2 -
This is the option I went with. Install an amplifier with BUILT IN blue tooth. No head unit required. Just an amp. This would require your 6v->12v step up unit as discussed previously. but it is just a simple AMP. You can see my setup (although I am already running 12v so I don't have a step-up but you could install it the same way).
Link
This gives you a real stereo. Again, using your phone as the "radio" but it doesn't require any mods to the car. The amp can connect directly to the battery, and (except for a 'ignition' wire to tell the amp when to turn on) it requires no wiring throughout the car. Using a stereo will still require you to run wires and speakers and all sorts of stuff. I can remove my entire setup in less than 10 minutes, and install it back again in as many minutes.
Just thoughts... |
Make sure to fuse the amplifier rather than directly connecting it to battery.
It you want all the latest internet type stuff, ITunes and such, I believe the retro sound radios are so equiped, then you have a nice dash mounted unit with a mounted display and convient knobs and buttons for tuning, always in reach, always in the same location. My friend put one in his 71 Bug on insistance from his kids, it has bluetooth so his kids can connect to it, also plays radio am and fm on regular radio frequncy, plus it looks vw period correct in style. I think it does every thing the cord mounted control and amp prior post discribed does, but in a classic car stockish looking package.
I think modern day loose controls (unless mounted, or hung in good spot), and many dash mounted modern car radios that are full of too many soft keys and menus are dangerous when driving.
It is good to have the controls always in the same spot, and not have them be soft (ie changable function) as that causes one to take eyes off road to see function display before tunning, volume control, etc....the more complexity, the less safe, distracted driving, like bums that text while driving.
The old car radio equlizers with 8 or so slide switches were safe, you could put you hand on them and adjust the tone while blind folded. Some newer radios make you press a soft key to get in the right mode, then watch the display scroll information to see what you have selected to do! Too make matters worse, may new radios have buttons that have little tactile feed back, you dont know it you pressed it correctly or not,
I have one radio with a half dozen station presets, six buttons, tiny, close together, and little feed back, no click or detent when pressed a seventh button the station preset reset button is the same kind of button, and its right next to the others, brush your hand on it and you lost the preset for the next station you select. So to prevent me loosing the preset station, I had to take my eyes off the road to make sure my little finger does not accidently brush this one switch, all of which is closely packed together.
Automotive dash equipment designers have really lost the ability to design safety minded
and ergonomic sound designs that take into account that the end user is supposed to be concentrating on driving, not fumbling with poorly designed human/ electronic interfaces. Car safety design is more than just ABS, and crumble zones, it is also driver distraction reduction, reducing the drivers work load.
anyway ...
if the controls are on a cord, consider mounting it on the dash, hang it from a loop on the ash tray pull knob or what ever, dont leave it loose. that way you wont fumble with it, seach for it when driving, which can be distracting. The corded unit does appear to have well defined buttons, so you can land you finger on each by feel, just make sure it is a easy to find location, you dont want to be digging for it under the seat when on the road.
bug on
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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| bluebus86 wrote: |
| kevlarian wrote: |
Might I make a suggestion? It's simple. Clean. Doesn't modify your car...
Option 1 -
Just put a nice Bluetooth rechargeable speaker in your car. You can sit it in your back seat, and connect your android/iPhone/ipod to it when you get in. "radio stations" broadcast of the iHeartRadio app, and your choices for quality music are nearly endless (unlike radio).
Obviously volume is important as the interior isn't the quietest on a bug, so here is a list to some LOUD Bluetooth portable speakers:
http://www.bassheadspeakers.com/loudest-bluetooth-speakers/
There are many others. A friend of mine has a Bose one in his back seat and it sounds GREAT. And when you go to a car show, you have some tunes you can play while parked
Option 2 -
This is the option I went with. Install an amplifier with BUILT IN blue tooth. No head unit required. Just an amp. This would require your 6v->12v step up unit as discussed previously. but it is just a simple AMP. You can see my setup (although I am already running 12v so I don't have a step-up but you could install it the same way).
Link
This gives you a real stereo. Again, using your phone as the "radio" but it doesn't require any mods to the car. The amp can connect directly to the battery, and (except for a 'ignition' wire to tell the amp when to turn on) it requires no wiring throughout the car. Using a stereo will still require you to run wires and speakers and all sorts of stuff. I can remove my entire setup in less than 10 minutes, and install it back again in as many minutes.
Just thoughts... |
Make sure to fuse the amplifier rather than directly connecting it to battery.
It you want all the latest internet type stuff, ITunes and such, I believe the retro sound radios are so equiped, then you have a nice dash mounted unit with a mounted display and convient knobs and buttons for tuning, always in reach, always in the same location. My friend put one in his 71 Bug on insistance from his kids, it has bluetooth so his kids can connect to it, also plays radio am and fm on regular radio frequncy, plus it looks vw period correct in style. I think it does every thing the cord mounted control and amp prior post discribed does, but in a classic car stockish looking package.
I think modern day loose controls (unless mounted, or hung in good spot), and many dash mounted modern car radios that are full of too many soft keys and menus are dangerous when driving.
It is good to have the controls always in the same spot, and not have them be soft (ie changable function) as that causes one to take eyes off road to see function display before tunning, volume control, etc....the more complexity, the less safe, distracted driving, like bums that text while driving.
The old car radio equlizers with 8 or so slide switches were safe, you could put you hand on them and adjust the tone while blind folded. Some newer radios make you press a soft key to get in the right mode, then watch the display scroll information to see what you have selected to do! Too make matters worse, may new radios have buttons that have little tactile feed back, you dont know it you pressed it correctly or not,
I have one radio with a half dozen station presets, six buttons, tiny, close together, and little feed back, no click or detent when pressed a seventh button the station preset reset button is the same kind of button, and its right next to the others, brush your hand on it and you lost the preset for the next station you select. So to prevent me loosing the preset station, I had to take my eyes off the road to make sure my little finger does not accidently brush this one switch, all of which is closely packed together.
Automotive dash equipment designers have really lost the ability to design safety minded
and ergonomic sound designs that take into account that the end user is supposed to be concentrating on driving, not fumbling with poorly designed human/ electronic interfaces. Car safety design is more than just ABS, and crumble zones, it is also driver distraction reduction, reducing the drivers work load.
anyway ...
if the controls are on a cord, consider mounting it on the dash, hang it from a loop on the ash tray pull knob or what ever, dont leave it loose. that way you wont fumble with it, seach for it when driving, which can be distracting. The corded unit does appear to have well defined buttons, so you can land you finger on each by feel, just make sure it is a easy to find location, you dont want to be digging for it under the seat when on the road.
bug on |
Sounds similar to arguments against installing a radio in the car. Early history of radios in cars were similar... too distracting... too many buttons. Not looking down the road. I have a modern "button" based stereo mounted in my BMW (1998 E30 Series), and I find it no more distracting than my Bug. To be clear, I've mounted both my PHONE and my Bluetooth controller just under my dash. If you haven't seen it, both Android and iPhone have "auto" modes (Android Auto, and iPhone Auto, respectively). Both provide SUPER SIMPLIFIED interfaces, auto reply to text "I'm driving, I'll text you when I'm stopped", and all can be set to auto forward calls to voicemail, or default to 'speaker' mode' when answering phone calls. I can use my voice to tell android auto to skip a song, or even play a specific station. Any argument that a stereo with buttons is a "better" solutions, really doesn't take into account the modern automation and hands free nature of mobile phones and advance human/hands free interaction. A buddy of mine has a modern (2017) BMW and the interface just to find a radio station, requires some joystick, nob solutions where you have to look at the center console to even know what's happening. Way more complex than what I've got setup. The biggest issue with a stereo in a bug, unless you wish to cut up the dashboard to mount a modern stereo is that you either mount it WAY under the console, or in the glovebox, both of which are HORRIBLE choices for controlling your audio. Spend a day in my bug withi my setup using hands free (or super bib button minimalist controls as provided with the amp) and you'll be converted. |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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the retro sound blue toothed stereo fits perfect with out cutting the dash.
I simply ignore the phone when driving, no need to program it to notify caller I am driving. I like it simple
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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BarnFine
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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| If I was installing a separate 12v battery for a stereo I would use a 6v relay that would be activated when the key is in the on position. Run the 12v power on for the stereo threw the load side of the relay. You're only adding a few mA to the 6 volt circuit. I would be interested in the solution you have for recharging the 12v battery, that's what would be the deal breaker for me. |
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Bryan67
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Joined: January 01, 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Fresno, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: separate 12v battery for stereo? |
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Or... just forget about it and listen to the engine instead. That way you will never have to worry about someone smashing your window and stealing your stereo. because that is what always happens.
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Wayne S. Johnson
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
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