59' versus 64' - which one appeals to you?

[Bzonic]

Greetings all,

I’d like to tap into the wisdom here and gather some opinions on a few nice beetles that I’m weighing the pros and cons of. I’ve narrowed it down between a 59’ and a 64’ both with some obvious pros and cons inherent to their specs. I’m curious what others would consider the better choice based on my criteria of decent driving experience, originality, and future hassle factors (parts availability). Unfortunately I do not have 100% of the back story on these vehicles but I will list what I know.

The 64’ sea blue – 100% original inside and out. Faded paint but pretty good and not yet buffed out. 31,000 original miles with no rust anywhere and unmolested as far as I can tell. I’m not sure if there will be some routine work necessary in near future. After 31,000 miles what can I expect to need to work on in the near future?

The 59’ capri blue – repainted recently but I’m not sure if much else was “restored”. I know the carpet is wrong and a few other details (fuel gage). Looks very solid overall with a fresh undercoat job too. I’m assuming it has the correct 36hp engine along with the necessity for dead stop 1st gear shifting.

The 59’ is a striking car with the new paint and older details but the drivability of the 64’ and originality are appealing too. Which one would you guys lean towards? Thanks very much for your insight!!

[vwfreek61]

I'd go with the original paint. You never know what's hiding under a fresh repaint.
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Kenneth
1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/Subaru EJ25 and reversed 4EAT

[turbotype1]

64 for sure..... It's only original once
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[hitest]

If the 31k is true- then the '64 is a REFERENCE level car. You may never see another one. Repainted beetles fall from trees around here. I'd pull the 80s crap off it- especially that hood pull chrome thingie and the eyebrows. If those wide whitewalls have an old date on them- jettison those too in favor of period correct narrower WWs. If it had a sunroof- I'd be knocking on their door tomorrow.
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[vwuberalles]

I'd go for the 64, you can't beat good original paint and everything. Who knows what kind of mess is hiding under that shiny new paint on the 59.
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1973 Superbeetle: 1st car, owned since age 12. Update thread --> https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9919140#9919140
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1966 Beetle: My new project. (SOLD) Build thread--> https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=678040

[Bzonic]

Thanks guys, My thoughts as well. Anything quirky about the 64' I should be aware of? Tips or tricks?

[Sharp64]

Is price an issue? I'm typically VERY skeptical of low mileage claims unless they are well documented. Have you checked the technical tab here to compare? A 31k car is very unusual and I would personally check 20 ways to Sunday to confirm it's true. I mean think about it, 53 year old car with only 31k on it. That's less than 600 miles per year...

All said and done, if the 64 is legit and the prices are comparable I'd choose it. By the same token, I like pre 60's so it's a matter of taste.
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1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
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[smokey503]

For shits and giggles I'd check the pedal rubbers.
If they look worn out most likely there are many more miles on the car.
The 64 is a nice looking car though.
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[Bzonic]

I'm not absolutely certain it is the original 31,000 miles but I will get a chance next weekend to look into it further. The file I saw regarding it's description from the previous owner only stated "100% original inside and out". Granted we all know what sellers can say if they choose to be dishonest. Unfortunately I do not have much more than that on its history. Are there any tell tale signs I should be looking for that indicate it has more than 31,000 on it? It has plenty of paint nicks on the lower front but I suppose that could happen within 31,000.

[67rustavenger]

Crawl underneath and have a look at the trans. If it's black painted, it's been rebuilt. The stock ones came unpainted.

Like smokey503 said, Check the pedal rubbers for wear. Yea they can be replaced to look new. But most folks don't really think about them. At least where I live they don't
Look for worn areas on the steering wheel too. Even a black wheel will display a dull finish where it has been handled over all the years of driving.

Why not just buy both cars and see which one appeals to you the best?
JK! I'm going on 58yo. So if it were me I'd be partial to the 59. That matches my age

Good Luck.
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[Helfen]

The 64 has more things going for it.
spring loaded front hood=no bending
better designed gas tank=more room under the hood
a gas gauge
most likely depending what state you live came with seatbelts
tunnel type fully synchronized box
new style steering column with a better ground for the horn
I like 36 and 40 hp equally, but 64 is a fresh air heater system is much better
more visible front turn signal lamps and rear stop and turn signal lamps.
Depending on your preference manual choke vs auto choke.
largest downside is the 36hp will get you much better MPG.
I'm sure with all the improvements every year the list from VW is even bigger.

[bluebus86]

A windshield full of pits is a good sign the vehcile has many miles. Many time pitted glass is reinstalled when car is repainted, for the price of a Bug windshield, that is poor choice. Nothing like good vision.

Now a scratched by wiper windshield may not indicate many miles unless many pits present, Even a low mile car with a rotten wipper blade can scracth its windshield in minutes.

my recenlty aquired Bug had a nice new paint job, only 75K miles documented by the little old lady, garaged kept, yadda yadda, till a couple years before she sold me the bug got in a fender bender and had the whole thing repainted.

The paint shop reinstalled the very heavily scratched by wiper glass, UGH! It must have been driven all rainy season one year with torn rubber blades.

See if the marks on the glass indicate orignal or not. If original and not pitted, thats a good indication of low miles.
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[mukluk]

Based purely on your criteria of decent driving experience, originality, and future hassle factors (parts availability), I'd say the '64 is quite a bit closer to what you're looking for. As for myself personally, I'd lean toward the '59 primary due to the fact it isn't a low mileage original, and would therefore be easier for me to enjoy as a driver.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[Bzonic]

Thanks Rustavenger and Heflin - great info that really starts to make this decision easier. I'm also thinking that if I need to do some work on it I will be starting on a fresh slate and not frustrated by something I discover the previous owner did poorly. As a first time poster I appreciate the truly helpful info.

[Bzonic]

Interesting Mukluk - I perceived the 64 to be a better driver but I completely see your point too. How challenging is driving a 36hp beetle? My first car 20 years ago was a 40hp java green 65 beetle and I remember not having issues too much. 36hp all that much noticeably slower?

[mukluk]

I can't say from personal experience, having only driven 1600's and a 40 horse. Taking into consideration the different gear ratios between stock 36 and 40 horse transaxles, I'd only guess that the 36 wouldn't be much slower than the 40 horse in normal driving up to about 60mph... the few videos on Youtube that I've watched with folks driving a 36 horse give the impression they get around just fine up to that speed.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[txoval]

If the 64 is original, why did they replace the front apron?

[jays58s]

[[email protected]]

I guess it depends on what your end goal is?

Are you going to modify the vehicle, or keep it stock "as is"? Do you plan on a paint job if you get the 64? I do agree that the 64 has more stock refinements, but the 59 IS A 59!

I'm going to go against the grain for a closer look at the 59. Yes, a fresh paint job, and undercoat are something that usually raise red flags, but what if they WERE done properly? Even a decent paint job is $5k+. If the body/chassis are done, you're just left with any mechanicals. If you want an all original vehicle, quadruple check all information on each vehicle. I don't care if the 64 had 3100 miles on it, I'm not driving it around on 53 year old brake components. At bare minimum, you would need all the rubber/hydraulic components.

Driving the stock version of each vehicle, the 64 would most likely be a little more practical/enjoyable with the factory refinements, but the 59 would get more "street cred". Modified with a stroker engine, the 59 is way cooler. Neither vehicle is going to be practical, but the 59 would be as driveable with the 36hp engine as the 64 with the 40hp.

[EVfun]

All elase being equal I would be inclined to buy the original paint car over a repaint. Repaints can be used to hide repairs and rust damage. Repaints can vary widely in quality and it's not always obvious until they age.

Of course all else is never equal. I prefer older, most of the appearance differences between a '59 and a '64 are old touches I like. Some of the mechanical changes on the '64 are nice to have, especially for a driver. The 36 is more costly to repair or rebuild, as is the splitcase (and 2nd gear syncro gets a workout.) The 36 is quite noticeably slower because not only do you have 10% less power you also have 7% taller gearing (the 36 horse Bug stock gearing is more like a later Bug with a 4.12 R&P.)

You will have to look at the price and condition of each car. Look for rust and accident damage and value accordingly. A lot of Bugs, even low mile ones, have had accident repair and marking a title for it is a more recent thing. Minor repairs that look right on the outside but slightly show underneath used to be common and can be fine in a driver, but still effect what you should expect to pay for it.

My drivers have been a '60, then a '63, and currently a '57. The '60 had the stock transaxle and 36 horse, then a big bore 40 horse. The split case gearing wasn't bad with either engine but the BB 40 was more powerful. The '63 had a stock 40 horse and I guessed a 4.12 R&P would be OK. NO, that combo sucked on the freeway, the stock 40 is designed for more rpm and needs it compared to the 36. My '57 has the stock 36 horse and a lower geared 40 horse transaxle. That drives pretty good but I have to consciously keep the speed held down to 65 mph on the freeway, and some urban freeway grades still drag me down to 55 mph or so. I've got the older and smaller brakes now too (and more expensive to work on), but a '59 wouldn't have that daily driver downside.
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