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Robbie is building another engine…
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asiab3
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Uh oh… It's time for another engine build! What's it going to be? 2110 big bore? 1800 stroker? 1584 single port?

*hint, it's the last one*

Like my last build, I'll be using this thread as "virtual notepad" so I have details about the build backed up online in case I misplace my hard copies of all the build notes.

Crank is a DPR counter-weighted 69mm VW forged crank. Cross-drilled and cut to first undersize on all journals, I had it custom made with four dowels for the flywheel since I won't be racing. Rod bearing clearances with Mahle rod bearings and rods rebuilt from Paradise Motorsports look good.

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Took me just about two beers to Plastigage the rod bearings and find that they're all exactly .0015" across the firing axis. This build is going to be significantly more fun than the last, because it won't be rushed, stressed, worried, or on Election Day.

Robbie

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asiab3
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

I should add: nothing is wrong with the current engine, other than the threaded insert in the #3 spark plug hole and the JB weld holding the #3 cam bearing in.

Anybody want to buy some Plastigage??
Robbie

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Good choice of engine. Enough restriction to prevent the engine from overworking, and a solid balanced base to prevent the bottom end from eating bearings. Should be able to be driven hard all day long!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Very Happy those look super- so it's back to thin oil, decent oil pumps and a choice of cams- what are you going with?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
I had it custom made with four dowels for the flywheel since I won't be racing.


Yea, but we all know you like to twist it up and hit the rev limiter on the regular.

Have fun building it, it's gonna be a fun winter for you. Oh yea, no winter in SoCal. ❄️
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Is this for you? A back up of sorts? Looking forward to watching this go together. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

richparker wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
I had it custom made with four dowels for the flywheel since I won't be racing.


Yea, but we all know you like to twist it up and hit the rev limiter on the regular.

Have fun building it, it's gonna be a fun winter for you. Oh yea, no winter in SoCal. ❄️


Of course there is. Its when people open their windows when stuck in traffic and air condition from 75 to 71F
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

I'm sure you're going to go with some good rebuilt German single port heads. There's a lot of chatter about the new Chinese castings flowing more air through them for cooling purposes at least in the dual port versions. I know there is even more brand options in the new dual port heads being sold.

When it comes time for my 71' dual port engine to need a valve job, I think I'm going to struggle between rebuilding the heads or simply buying the known good new castings/heads that do flow lots of air.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

If you need a stand, I have one available.

One trick I use on final assembly: put oil in the fully-assenbled engine while still on the stand. Roll the engine 90 degrees and let the oil fill the lower rocker cover, and soak for a minute or two. Then roll it 180 degrees the other way and repeat. This gives the valve train and valves a thorough oiling, which otherwise would take some time on first startup. FWIW.
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Brian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

I'm somewhere between 15k and 20k on my Chinese heads (odometer is off and I stopped counting)
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asiab3
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Spike0180 wrote:
[…restricted and balanced…] Should be able to be driven hard all day long!


I mean, that's what I have now, and that IS what I do all day, but this one should be even smoother and quieter! Razz


williamM wrote:
Very Happy those look super- so it's back to thin oil, decent oil pumps and a choice of cams- what are you going with?


10w30 until "warm summer" comes around, then back to 20w50. I've always stuck by my 26mm oil pump. The Schadeks of recent design are adjustable to be used with flat or dished cams. I have a NOS 26mm W. German pump for a dished cam, but I can't find any good quality dished cams. I'll probably have WebCam make a new stock cam for me with matching lifters. I am NOT using ANY cam/lifter combo that isn't guaranteed matched. The Engle W90 is my second choice.


richparker wrote:
Yea, but we all know you like to twist it up and hit the rev limiter on the regular.

Have fun building it, it's gonna be a fun winter for you. Oh yea, no winter in SoCal. ❄️


DUH I'm going to twist it up! Twisted Evil The new rev-limiter will be 5,400 RPM instead of the current 4,500 RPM, thanks to the counter-weighted crank.

As above, we have "cold summer" and "warm summer." We drive with the windows down all year, but in cold summer we sometimes wear pants.

--

71whitewesty, this is for me, and it will stay wrapped in cellophane if I finish it before my current engine decides to finish itself. My current case is shot, and the heads are shot too, so I kinda just floor it everywhere until I hit 4,200 RPM and back off to cruise there. I get 18mpg at 4,000 RPM and 19-20mpg at 3,600 RPM, so you bet I go 70 when the freeway is open. Cool


telford dorr wrote:
If you need a stand, I have one available.

One trick I use on final assembly: put oil in the fully-assenbled engine while still on the stand. Roll the engine 90 degrees and let the oil fill the lower rocker cover, and soak for a minute or two. Then roll it 180 degrees the other way and repeat. This gives the valve train and valves a thorough oiling, which otherwise would take some time on first startup. FWIW.


I did the "tilt" trick in Colorado, before realizing that I built a turn-key engine on Rich's stand, and it took four people to get the thing down and onto the floor jack without fubar. If the build manages to metastasize while the current engine still runs as beautifully as it does now, this build will be sitting for a while anyway, so that's a god idea to "pickle" it.

I would love to borrow a stand; the apartment doesn't have room to store a stand once I'm done with this engine. Of course, Cynthia may build one on it too!


wcfvw69 wrote:
I'm sure you're going to go with some good rebuilt German single port heads. There's a lot of chatter about the new Chinese castings flowing more air through them for cooling purposes at least in the dual port versions. I know there is even more brand options in the new dual port heads being sold.

When it comes time for my 71' dual port engine to need a valve job, I think I'm going to struggle between rebuilding the heads or simply buying the known good new castings/heads that do flow lots of air.


You know Bill, I was thinking about my heads, and how damn consistent the valve checks are, (last needed adjustment was about 10k ago; one hour,) and the only issue I had with my current "found them in a bin outside at the wrecking yard" heads is the stripped plug threads. The plugs never did thread in smoothly to #3, so it was no surprise that I shredded them in my hurry. Brian has extremely stable valve adjustments with his Chinese heads though. Adrian built them with the "treatment" (new springs, guides, and valves) and I am actually considering them! Screw the dual ports; you'll never get the sweat balls of ripped boots in the 120° Tempe summers out of my memories…

Brian, I need to borrow your metric plumbus.

Robbie
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3. 90% of problems are between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Quote:
The new rev-limiter will be 5,400 RPM instead of the current 4,500 RPM, thanks to the counter-weighted crank.

If that's the case, I recommend a good set of heavy duty single valve springs. Stock ones are marginal at the stock 4600 r/m red line. Faster than that, and you will experience valve float (which pulls stems out of heads as the valves crash against the valve seat). A cam profile is designed to 'gently' set the valve down on its seat, but this requires constant valve train compression from spring to lifter. Side note: most people experience a "power loss" with heavier springs. It's not the springs - it's the elimination of valve float and the corresponding artificial duration increase that's responsible.

Quote:
I did the "tilt" trick in Colorado, before realizing that I built a turn-key engine on Rich's stand...

I was thinking 'assembled, but before sheet metal' for the oiling trick..

Quote:
I would love to borrow a stand...

Let me know when you need it, and come by and pick it up.
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71whitewesty
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

FWIW, I've have two set of Adrian heads and no issues at all. One set only has about 3k on them and the other set on my first long block from him are still going strong with 27k on it. (Think I've said I have 30k on that engine but upon checking I only have 27k). Valve adjustments have been very minimal on them too.
(Ps my new Adrian long block is fully assembled and should have it in Bus 1 and running over the weekend.)
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71 Westy 1600 DP, all stock. (^I usually drive this.)
1970's Snow Trac 1600 SP (sold 12/2016)
1968 Tucker sno cat
2017 VW Alltrac
71 tin top stock 1600 DP (project but great runner)
Newest edition, a twin 71 White Westy that I just pulled from a 15 year slumber in a dry eastern WA field. Thread to follow soon....http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=567878&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

I'm coming thru Sunday to Anaheim- if you need anything from my extensive inventory- let me know- will also be stopping at KentPS place with dist parts.

I bought the Beehive kit- If you want to see it I can bring it with. It might be just the thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Think

Will I need a stimulant every time I go to read this?

Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

make sure the rods are measured from partline to partline so they aren't pinched or oversize. Call me if you don't understand what I am telling you to measure. The scribe lines have to go 360 degrees from the measuring device. If the marks stop before the part line DO NOT TRUST THE RODS. That means if the machinist measured from 10 to 4 and 4 to 10 then the distance from partlline to partline may be pinched or excessive. I have seen it many times. The tool used to measure will leave faint scribe lines. Be sure they go 360 degrees. We lost an engine at Road Atlanta because Mac Tilton missed that. The rods were pinched at the partline. It happens all the time because the human wrist won't rotate 360 degrees. It takes a really machinist to be able to get measurements accurately across the rod partline.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Robbie is slowly building another engine... Laughing

Ya got any updates for us? We're giddy with anticipation. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

KentPS wrote:
Robbie is slowly building another engine... Laughing

Ya got any updates for us? We're giddy with anticipation. Smile


Not too much- I have to make a Pomona trip to get rid of the three or four core engines I have sitting in my garage. Then I will have room and cash to continue.

Adrian found a set of T1 heads with extremely low mileage, and he saved them for me because he remembered I liked stock valve seats and OG metal. So these guys will be getting all new guides, stainless steel valves, and a good cleaning. These things were left outside on an engine for a few decades, but the rocker area is insanely clean for an engine that's never been out of the car.

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They won't look like Len's blueprint specials, but if they're anything like the current heads I have in here, they'll work beautifully for tens of thousands of miles and still look brand new.

Robbie
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Nice! It looks like you really scored with those heads! Nothing like low mileage, original VW heads.
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My 1970 bus refresh thread- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598191

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Robbie is building another engine… Reply with quote

Those are T3 heads pooky Eh?

Which may be to your benefit with bigger valves. Wink
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