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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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No idea on the "type 4" distributor...too many advance curves it could be.....carbed US 411, carbed EU 411, bus.....
But check out this on the points variety. NAPA is the last best place for good quality points....mostly SMP (maker of Blue Streak)....if you know what you are looking at.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=659700&highlight=blue+streak
Ray |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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That was really esoteric, Ray!  Thank you for that link and the information you put into your post. My brain is full now.
Seems like the best choice might be the CS313SB
What are your thoughts on these:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ATM1237013044 |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:09 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
That was really esoteric, Ray! Thank you for that link and the information you put into your post. My brain is full now.
Seems like the best choice might be the CS313SB
What are your thoughts on these:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ATM1237013044 |
The L shaped rubbing block makes me nervous. Maybe this brand uses a better type of plastic, but that is the same shape rubbing block that keeps breaking on the Bosch points.
The Duralast brand from Autozone has a triangle shaped rubbing block that cannot break in the same manner. (At least last time I bought a set.)
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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This is what NAPA has when you narrow it down by year
https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=points&a...vehicleAdd
I have been running their ventilated points for several years at this point in time and am happy enough with them.
Might order up a set of Beru points and see what they are like.
As for the distributor it is obviously a dual vacuum dual advance. So long as you time your engine at 28° BTDC @ 3500+ rpms, hoses off it should be fine. If you need to time it at idle you will need to figure out how much retard it has.
They also offer a SVDA distributor if you don't want or need the DVDA.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NRD48914
No idea on the quality of either distributor rebuild though. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
That was really esoteric, Ray! Thank you for that link and the information you put into your post. My brain is full now.
Seems like the best choice might be the CS313SB
What are your thoughts on these:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ATM1237013044 |
That is a set of Bosch points and should thus be avoided. 
Buy the ventilated Echlins or the Beru |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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depends where the bosch points were made, when and whether adequate lobe grease is used.
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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This distributor Napa is selling appears to be a Cardone rebuild. Buy with caution. There was another thread recently in the bug section about the poor quality of work Cardone does.
I've taken apart two different Cardone rebuilds for customers who couldn't make them work correctly. I found the following-
* Wrong vacuum cans installed
* Badly worn advance weights and their pins
* Worn breaker plates. One was the wrong breaker plate for the distributor.
Basically, it appears cardone takes them apart, media blasts the body, cleans the parts, reassembles them and put any vacuum can they have laying around.
I snapped photos of my findings and sent them to the customers. Sadly, the were on a laptop that fried so I can't repost them.
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Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
That was really esoteric, Ray! Thank you for that link and the information you put into your post. My brain is full now.
Seems like the best choice might be the CS313SB
What are your thoughts on these:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ATM1237013044 |
The best choice if they sell a set to fit your qpplication......are a set with the ventilated electrodes and high temp plastic one piece frame....and maybe even the copper ground strip....from what I see....the Napa Echlin brand with a "P" series letter in its part #.....would be the best quality they have.
Something for your year whose characteristics match the ECH 313 set I listed in that thread. Ray |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| depends where the bosch points were made, when and whether adequate lobe grease is used. |
Too many failures with newer Bosch stuff for me to buy them myself or recommend them to others. A NOS Bosch points set at least a dozen years old would be okay. Insufficient grease isn't the issue, poor material quality is.
The Beru set costs less than the Bosch so it seems to be a no brainer on that point alone. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
This distributor Napa is selling appears to be a Cardone rebuild. Buy with caution. There was another thread recently in the bug section about the poor quality of work Cardone does.
I've taken apart two different Cardone rebuilds for customers who couldn't make them work correctly. I found the following-
* Wrong vacuum cans installed
* Badly worn advance weights and their pins
* Worn breaker plates. One was the wrong breaker plate for the distributor.
Basically, it appears cardone takes them apart, media blasts the body, cleans the parts, reassembles them and put any vacuum can they have laying around.
I snapped photos of my findings and sent them to the customers. Sadly, the were on a laptop that fried so I can't repost them. |
Thats really sad to hear. For most of my life...Cardone was the "go-to" rebuilder of anything. They were the primary re-man company sold through places like BAP Geon and Beck Arnley.
I guess this is because when the market started getting flooded with literally a hundred companies doing rebuilds back in the 90's onward....you know the type....you see them listed. All seem to have no real name ...just a Two or three letter moniker like "IAP" or "BF" or "GX"...no real identifier or history.......and you couple that with the "cheap" mentality that the US car owner developed in the willingness to spend for parts.....and the companies that did TRUE rebuilding like Cardone.....had no real way to compete other than to cheapen out their line.
Its said by every business expert that competition drives innovation, quality and improvement. That is NOT actually true...if the target audience is not willing to pay for the cost of it.
It also somewhat disproves the adage that the customer is always right. Ray |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| depends where the bosch points were made, when and whether adequate lobe grease is used. |
Too many failures with newer Bosch stuff for me to buy them myself or recommend them to others. A NOS Bosch points set at least a dozen years old would be okay. Insufficient grease isn't the issue, poor material quality is.
The Beru set costs less than the Bosch so it seems to be a no brainer on that point alone. |
I'd go further back than a dozen years... I installed a set I probably bought around 2002 and it lasted less than 45 minutes.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Napa Auto Parts Type 4 vacuum advance distributor and points |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
This distributor Napa is selling appears to be a Cardone rebuild. Buy with caution. There was another thread recently in the bug section about the poor quality of work Cardone does.
I've taken apart two different Cardone rebuilds for customers who couldn't make them work correctly. I found the following-
* Wrong vacuum cans installed
* Badly worn advance weights and their pins
* Worn breaker plates. One was the wrong breaker plate for the distributor.
Basically, it appears cardone takes them apart, media blasts the body, cleans the parts, reassembles them and put any vacuum can they have laying around.
I snapped photos of my findings and sent them to the customers. Sadly, the were on a laptop that fried so I can't repost them. |
Thats really sad to hear. For most of my life...Cardone was the "go-to" rebuilder of anything. They were the primary re-man company sold through places like BAP Geon and Beck Arnley.
I guess this is because when the market started getting flooded with literally a hundred companies doing rebuilds back in the 90's onward....you know the type....you see them listed. All seem to have no real name ...just a Two or three letter moniker like "IAP" or "BF" or "GX"...no real identifier or history.......and you couple that with the "cheap" mentality that the US car owner developed in the willingness to spend for parts.....and the companies that did TRUE rebuilding like Cardone.....had no real way to compete other than to cheapen out their line.
Its said by every business expert that competition drives innovation, quality and improvement. That is NOT actually true...if the target audience is not willing to pay for the cost of it.
It also somewhat disproves the adage that the customer is always right. Ray |
The price point alone for this rebuild distributor should be screaming 'red flag'. Clearly these rebuilds are done outside the USA where labor is cheap and they are only cleaning, lubing and shipping it out the door.
It's takes a minimum of 2 hours labor to restore a DVDA distributor if you do it correctly. Polishing the internals, stripping the screws and clips to re zinc plate them adds time as well. 1 out of 4 DVDA distributors I take apart fail the inspection due to excess wear on the breaker plates, advance weights or the advance weight pivot pins. They become parts donors. Looking at those two Cardone distributors, they are clearly passing and "restoring" every distributor that comes through.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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