Proper end play saves oil.

[Tim Donahoe]

Just a heads up for those who seem to leak more than a drop or two of oil after shit down from the hole between the transmission and the engine.

I recently pulled my engine to install a new alternator, and I also wanted to address an increasingly increased oil drip that was leaking from the area I mentioned above. It was much more than a drop or two ....

Previous attempts included smearing a sealant along the seam and around the cam plug, as well as installing a new Elring flywheel seal. The second to the last attempt was okay, but as time went on, the leak came back.

So, I finally checked my end play, using a dial indicator, as well as one of the cheaper bolt-on tools where you use feeler gauges--the type that all VW vendors sell. Both gave me the same results. My end play was excessive. Not a lot, but not within limits. So, I traded out one of the three shims and ended up well within spec. Then I used my screw-in seal installer because I don't work well with a hammer on my bug .

Anyway, at first I got no drips at all, which was odd because you need a little drop or two after shutting down because the flywheel seal needs lubrication. A few more miles and another peek or two under the engine, and I did get my single drop of oil.

Moral? If you keep losing more than a drop or two of oil from this area--like a lot, actually--you might want to check your end play (with the seal removed). You don't need an expensive dial indicator for this. Just get the vendor, feeler-gauge cheapie. If your end play is not way out of spec, get the proper shims to bring it into spec.

I suspect that my engine, which only had 12,000 miles on it when I bought the bug, had been improperly shimmed by the engine builder.

Looking under my car now, I just have a drop or two of marking. I can live with that.

Of course, I also had leaks from one valve cover and the oil sump; but I replaced one cover with a new OEM one from Bughaus, and went back to using the silicone oil-sump gaskets from Wolfsburg West.

Tim
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[Zundfolge1432]

All good and there's a modification you can do to mimic what VW did after 1975. But it requires you take the engine all the way apart and using a Dremel you make an oil drain back in the seal area on case half. VW recognized this as a problem too. Somewhere I took pics of this and made it a topic.

[wcfvw69]

Hey Tim,

While you were in there, did you change the o-ring in the flywheel? Often times, those irritating oil leaks are from it not being changed.
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[Tim Donahoe]

Bil, I did change the o-ring. Then I took great care not to smash it when installing the flywheel. This is the third time I've done this: I want it to be my last.

Tim
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[Chris333]

I have .010" endplay right now. Should I mess with the shims? And does adding to the shim thickness reduce the play?

[Cusser]

[Chris333]

My thrust bearing is not loose. Shim or get new bearings?

[tripicana]

Reshim
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[Tim Donahoe]

I had .008 end play. I thought I was screwed and had worn my thrust bearing, but I went down to Wolfgang International here in town, and Steve took all three of my shims and asked me how much play I wanted. I said .004. He came back a few minutes and handed me the three shims he said to use. He also handed me one of my other shims which was apparently too thin and told me not to get it mixed up with the other three. I told him to just throw it away, which he did.

When I got home, I installed the two old (good) shims, along with the third (new shim) I got. My freeplay ended up being just shy of .004. Perfect. Then I removed the flywheel again and installed the flywheel seal and the new o-ring.

I don't know how much play you can have out of spec, or for how long, but apparently my thrust bearing didn't wear too much on me, and all is well.

So, even with .010, you might be able to get away with setting your end play to spec. Just figure out what 3 shims you need--which Steve did for me, but you may have to get a mic and do it yourself. Also, hope you haven't a worn thrust bearing.

Tim
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[Cusser]

When I was assembling my 1600cc engine last year (after the case had been machined/line bored and new bearings), with the original 3 shims and original flywheel I had zero end play (measured with feeler gauge technique). I couldn't find my extra shims at the time, so I loaded the short block in my truck and took it down to European Automotive Machine in Phoenix http://www.europeanautomachine.com/ on a Saturday morning, and they agreed and fixed up the end play correctly for me as I waited.

My guess is is that if I had found my extra shims and had some thinner ones that I could have done this myself, but this saved me the hassle or ordering thinner shims....
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[mark tucker]

[Cusser]

[Chris333]

Ordered a new set of shims today.

Thanks!

[Tim Donahoe]

Mark, good point. But before I tear down the engine, this seemed a prudent first step. Did I fudge? or did I simply right an initial wrong? At this point, only time will tell.

And Cusser, it was the oil leakage that got my attention. I might have titled the thread, "Proper end play saves your engine ... and by the way, it also saves your oil. But the former seemed obvious, and the latter not so much. Besides, that title is rather long.

My main point was to draw attention to one of the mysterious reasons why--after changing your flywheel seal, and doing it properly, you still ended up with a lot of oil leakage. Too much end play and you eventually destroy the case, but you also leave a nice conduit for excessive oil leakage, no matter how many times you change the seals. The thread simply gave owners another place to look for answers.

Tim
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[Eric&Barb]

[Joey]

[gt1953]

One of the engines I have kept leaking oil end play set correct new seal you name it...finally replace the groovy flywheel and bam problem solved. Do check the flywheel for the groove that oil will flow past.
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[Tim Donahoe]

The flywheel had no groove. I simply replaced the flywheel seal with another Elring, the o-ring, and replaced one of the shims to achieve proper end play. I took the flywheel down to Wolfgang International for them to inspect it, too. They said it looked new.

Tim
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