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JuanCor600
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Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Málaga, España
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 Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: VW38 Survivors |
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I open this post to count all VW38 survivors. These are the ones I know:
VW38/03:
VW38/06:
VW38/25: (Replica)
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allsidius
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Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 1475
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS |
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Sorry, a fake number plate doesn't count.
Well. The first one is also fake, that car should have IIIA-48003. But I guess it must be counted as the oldest going by the chassis no. (38/03)
The blue one is out.
Hitler's convertible, chassis no 38/31 is still in existense. So is Mathe's Berlin-Rom Rekordwagen, the Porsche Typ 64 or Typ 60K10, chassis no 38/43 later restamped 38/41 apparently. Finally the Typ 60K10 chassis no 38/42, which was recreated on the original chassis a few years ago. I guess it is just as original as no 38/03, which has a 1955 Oval body with some of the unique bits of the original grafted in.
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1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
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JuanCor600
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Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Málaga, España
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:48 am Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS |
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| allsidius wrote: |
Sorry, a fake number plate doesn't count.
Well. The first one is also fake, that car should have IIIA-48003. But I guess it must be counted as the oldest going by the chassis no. (38/03)
The blue one is out.
Hitler's convertible, chassis no 38/31 is still in existense. So is Mathe's Berlin-Rom Rekordwagen, the Porsche Typ 64 or Typ 60K10, chassis no 38/43 later restamped 38/41 apparently. Finally the Typ 60K10 chassis no 38/42, which was recreated on the original chassis a few years ago. I guess it is just as original as no 38/03, which has a 1955 Oval body with some of the unique bits of the original grafted in. |
The first photo, the 38/03 isn´t a fake, is the IIIA-43003 but when it was restored his restorers put in it an incorrect plate, I think. |
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JuanCor600
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Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Málaga, España
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS |
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| allsidius wrote: |
Sorry, a fake number plate doesn't count.
Well. The first one is also fake, that car should have IIIA-48003. But I guess it must be counted as the oldest going by the chassis no. (38/03)
The blue one is out.
Hitler's convertible, chassis no 38/31 is still in existense. So is Mathe's Berlin-Rom Rekordwagen, the Porsche Typ 64 or Typ 60K10, chassis no 38/43 later restamped 38/41 apparently. Finally the Typ 60K10 chassis no 38/42, which was recreated on the original chassis a few years ago. I guess it is just as original as no 38/03, which has a 1955 Oval body with some of the unique bits of the original grafted in. |
VW38/31:
VW38/42:
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS |
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Number 3 has the original front hood or at least the upper part, at least the lower part of the front windshield area, dash and trunk floor, possibly the entire roof, the rear window and back part of the roof, engine decklid. Not sure about the fenders but the rears have the dot dash reinforcing ribs so those are later parts. The doors are production split or modified oval. The remaining parts of the body are early oval. Not sure about the pan. Engine is not original.
The car was heavily modified during the war for the use of the wood burning gas generator on the front of the car. After the war when it was put back together using an oval body as the donor.
Number 6 has the original deck lid and doors as well as the basic body shell minus the front and back windows. It was reconstructed using early parts modified as necessary or newly made parts. it has a '39 pan and a super early engine. It is by far more accurately restored than number 3.
Number 3 has a later production decklid handle and currently sports some damage.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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JuanCor600
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Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Málaga, España
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
Number 3 has the original front hood or at least the upper part, at least the lower part of the front windshield area, dash and trunk floor, possibly the entire roof, the rear window and back part of the roof, engine decklid. Not sure about the fenders but the rears have the dot dash reinforcing ribs so those are later parts. The doors are production split or modified oval. The remaining parts of the body are early oval. Not sure about the pan. Engine is not original.
The car was heavily modified during the war for the use of the wood burning gas generator on the front of the car. After the war when it was put back together using an oval body as the donor.
Number 6 has the original deck lid and doors as well as the basic body shell minus the front and back windows. It was reconstructed using early parts modified as necessary or newly made parts. it has a '39 pan and a super early engine. It is by far more accurately restored than number 3.
Number 3 has a later production decklid handle and currently sports some damage.
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Excellent information |
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allsidius
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Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 1475
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
| Not sure about the fenders but the rears have the dot dash reinforcing ribs so those are later parts |
The fenders definetely üsed to be pressed standard parts, but looking at the latest pictures I am not sure if they haven't been replaced with hand made ones like the ones Grundmanns made for no 06. Not that they are originals, but at least they are as close as possible, with headlight pods welded on and smoothed out with lead filler. The edges around the headlight rims seem sharper now, on par with the first few prototypes, before the final headlight design was settled upon.
Does anybody know if 03 has got new front fenders?
_________________
1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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JuanCor600
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Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Málaga, España
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:58 am Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors |
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Another survivor, VW38/33.
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS |
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| allsidius wrote: |
| splitjunkie wrote: |
| Not sure about the fenders but the rears have the dot dash reinforcing ribs so those are later parts |
The fenders definetely üsed to be pressed standard parts, but looking at the latest pictures I am not sure if they haven't been replaced with hand made ones like the ones Grundmanns made for no 06. Not that they are originals, but at least they are as close as possible, with headlight pods welded on and smoothed out with lead filler. The edges around the headlight rims seem sharper now, on par with the first few prototypes, before the final headlight design was settled upon.
Does anybody know if 03 has got new front fenders? |
I just saw number 3 last Sunday. I will post some pictures.
_________________
Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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JuanCor600
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Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Málaga, España
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: Re: VW38 SURVIVORS |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
| allsidius wrote: |
| splitjunkie wrote: |
| Not sure about the fenders but the rears have the dot dash reinforcing ribs so those are later parts |
The fenders definetely üsed to be pressed standard parts, but looking at the latest pictures I am not sure if they haven't been replaced with hand made ones like the ones Grundmanns made for no 06. Not that they are originals, but at least they are as close as possible, with headlight pods welded on and smoothed out with lead filler. The edges around the headlight rims seem sharper now, on par with the first few prototypes, before the final headlight design was settled upon.
Does anybody know if 03 has got new front fenders? |
I just saw number 3 last Sunday. I will post some pictures. |
I hope to see the photos, it's beautiful the VW38. |
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allsidius
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splitjunkie
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors |
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The first batch of VW38's had 24 louvers per side along with the squared off corner decklid an almost squared off front hood. The second batch had the curved corner decklid and hood. Did they still have 24 louvers per side?
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You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Undis
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Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors |
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There are only three survivors that are known to exist.
VW38/03 – at the VW museum
VW38/06 – Grundmann collection
VW38/31 – at the VW museum
Putting a IIIA-430xx licence plate on a car does not make it a VW38!
All three cars are very well known and documented with plenty of period photos available.
To answer Splitjunkie’s question above, from my research I’ve been able to determine some milestones in the evolution of the VW38.
It is supposed that there were 44 cars of the VW38 series built.
Cars 1 to 6 had pull out handles on the front and rear lids. This was changed to an L handle as of car 7.
Cars 1 to 24* had L handles on the doors (outside) and high/mid mounted inner door handles. This was changed as of car 25 with the outer handles being the “ice pick type” and the inner handle located further to the front and lower.
Cars 1 to 24* had square corners on the deck-lid with the rear corners being rounded as of car 25.
Cars 1 to 29 had square corners on the front hood with the front corners being rounded as of car 30.
* there is a problem with car 24 as only a single incomplete photo exists without any of these details positively confirmable.
Another problem is that the further we go down the track the less photos exist of cars beyond numbers 26 and 27 making it all so harder. I’m faced with many frustrations trying to figure out the changes in details of the later VW38s.
As for the 24 air-slots per side – all of the known photos confirm that the VW38s had this feature and is a sure way of identifying them. The 21 slots per side started with the VW39 when the whole body was redesigned. I may just add here that the VW38/31 cabriolet has 25 air-slots per side! |
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scottyrocks
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Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2658
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:42 am Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors |
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| Undis wrote: |
| The 21 slots per side started with the VW39 when the whole body was redesigned. |
I would love to see a side-by-side design study of this. To most people, most bugs look the same, and the 38s and 39s certainly do. I think the subtle nuances of the changes would be fascinating.
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“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch' |
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JuanCor600
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Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Málaga, España
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:55 am Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors |
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| Undis wrote: |
There are only three survivors that are known to exist.
VW38/03 – at the VW museum
VW38/06 – Grundmann collection
VW38/31 – at the VW museum
Putting a IIIA-430xx licence plate on a car does not make it a VW38!
All three cars are very well known and documented with plenty of period photos available.
To answer Splitjunkie’s question above, from my research I’ve been able to determine some milestones in the evolution of the VW38.
It is supposed that there were 44 cars of the VW38 series built.
Cars 1 to 6 had pull out handles on the front and rear lids. This was changed to an L handle as of car 7.
Cars 1 to 24* had L handles on the doors (outside) and high/mid mounted inner door handles. This was changed as of car 25 with the outer handles being the “ice pick type” and the inner handle located further to the front and lower.
Cars 1 to 24* had square corners on the deck-lid with the rear corners being rounded as of car 25.
Cars 1 to 29 had square corners on the front hood with the front corners being rounded as of car 30.
* there is a problem with car 24 as only a single incomplete photo exists without any of these details positively confirmable.
Another problem is that the further we go down the track the less photos exist of cars beyond numbers 26 and 27 making it all so harder. I’m faced with many frustrations trying to figure out the changes in details of the later VW38s.
As for the 24 air-slots per side – all of the known photos confirm that the VW38s had this feature and is a sure way of identifying them. The 21 slots per side started with the VW39 when the whole body was redesigned. I may just add here that the VW38/31 cabriolet has 25 air-slots per side! |
Thanks for the info!
Only three survivors? Do you know the rumor of someone else? |
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allsidius
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Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 1475
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors |
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Undis' summary of the cars built to the VW38 series is excellent, as always.
Here is a list of all the chassis numbers, note that among a few others, cars 41 to 43 are missing.
I take no honor in compiling the lists, if anyone knows who did, please drop me a PM and I will amend.
Several entries are missing, for instance no 38/14. Chris Barber assumes this chassis was taken for early Kübelwagen trials and received new chassis numbers under type 62 series.
These are the Berlin-Rom Rekordwagen, which was built on VW 38 chassis.
This list show the three Typ 60K10 cars missing in the list above.
_________________
1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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JuanCor600
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Málaga, España
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: Re: VW38 Survivors |
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| allsidius wrote: |
Undis' summary of the cars built to the VW38 series is excellent, as always.
Here is a list of all the chassis numbers, note that among a few others, cars 41 to 43 are missing.
I take no honor in compiling the lists, if anyone knows who did, please drop me a PM and I will amend.
Several entries are missing, for instance no 38/14. Chris Barber assumes this chassis was taken for early Kübelwagen trials and received new chassis numbers under type 62 series.
These are the Berlin-Rom Rekordwagen, which was built on VW 38 chassis.
This list show the three Typ 60K10 cars missing in the list above.
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Nice info, thanks for the lists. |
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allsidius
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splitjunkie
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allsidius
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