| Author |
Message |
tlbranth
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2014
Posts: 209
Location: Carnation, Wa
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: Oil seal behind CV joint - wobbly |
 |
|
I saw this in the Bentley but now can't find it so can't put a name to it. I replaced the CV joints with new Lobros and when I pulled the driver's side shaft, I noticed the seal on the transmission was out. I tried pushing it back in but it would go in one edge while the other popped out. I cleaned it off - looked OK, and found a socket that fit nicely on its outer edge and tried tapping it back in but it just won't go. It still wobbles side to side and I know it's going to fall out and let gear oil into the CV joint. Is there a trick to this? I've replaced scores of regular oil seals on motorcycles and cars without a lick of trouble but this one just doesn't want to cooperate
_________________
Terry
1991 Westfailure. 2004 Forester 2.5 engine. 4speed Standard transmission. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
You are missing some parts there on the side of the trans. Correctly assembled, you should see just a flimsy black plastic shield behind the thick steel flange the CV is bolted to. Behind the shield would be the inner oil seal which I think you are speaking of. So if you have no shield there, someone's been in there that was perhaps less than demanding. The seal goes in with the usual tight fit, though perhaps the previous mechanic had trouble getting it in because it was ill fitting aftermarket crap and now you are as well.
DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tlbranth
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2014
Posts: 209
Location: Carnation, Wa
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The other side has the same thing but that one is pressed in properly. It's a rubber seal (cap) with a steel skeleton just like a spring-loaded oil seal except this is a cap. It looks like it should press in nicely but doesn't. I think the parts are correct. I'll see if the VW outfit has one tomorrow. Maybe I just need a new one.
_________________
Terry
1991 Westfailure. 2004 Forester 2.5 engine. 4speed Standard transmission. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4083
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Is this the little bugger you're talking about? You may just need a new one. Make sure the surface is nice and clean before installing.
I also used a little RTV on mine to keep it there.
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_594_1241/drive-flange-cap-p594.html
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tlbranth
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2014
Posts: 209
Location: Carnation, Wa
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's the one. I'll see if I can get a new one tomorrow.
_________________
Terry
1991 Westfailure. 2004 Forester 2.5 engine. 4speed Standard transmission. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh wow - just that little guy? Nice. Piece of cake to install with a little RTV to hold it in. I think Van Cafe has a little tutorial.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
On more of the exotic transmissions that have been built, this seal is omitted.
RTV, silver, can be applied to the same area, cleaned with brake cleaner first and will create as good of or better seal than the blue plug. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alaskadan
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1857
Location: anchor pt. alaska
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
I had the same problem. My trans had been rebuilt only a year prior when i had a cv start getting noisy. When i pulled said cv that seal was floating around in there. I cleaned everthing really well, found the proper size socket and tried to tap it back in. I found that pneumatic pressure was making pop out on one side or the other. After a few attempts and a new seal it wasnt going to stay put.
Im sure i will hear about how many of you just popped them in with no issue. Trust me i tried. So i took a razor blade and cut a hair width "V" into the rubber on the outer edge of the seal. Literally as small as i could make it. Then i put a little high temp silicone in the bore and on edge of seal. This time when i tapped it in it seated all the way in snuggly while a tiny bead of silicone came out of that v groove releasing the pressure behind. Air never came out of the v telling me that the groove was still full of silicone after seating. We will see if it stayed next time that cv gets serviced. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Using a goop that is tackier than silicone will help when installing seals. Silicone just makes things nice and slippery so they pop back out. It also might be possible to use a long thin center punch to make dimples on the inside surface of the hub so that there would be more friction to hold the seal in place until the goop has set.
I like Insyncro's idea of not using the seal at all though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
About three years ago I had a rear half-axle bore a hole in my seal allowing tranny fluid to get into the CV. I had a shop 'fix' it but never did actually see how the new seal went in.
It sounds weird that an important seal like this seems to be held in by friction with a 'little' RTV ? Won't the pressure from the tranny fluid push it back out during operation ? Can anyone clarify what's going on with this design and proper seating in a little more detail ?
The reason I ask is I may have to replace another one myself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zak99B5
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2014
Posts: 471
Location: Albany, NY
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| There's no real oil pressure in a manual transmission. It just gets splashed around by the gears spinning in it. There's no oil pump. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here is one of the most impressive transmissions that I have had the pleasure of working with during my Vanapolooza experience in DC, helping to build the first of Derek Drew's machines.
Yes, custom 930 flanges, but still, we opted to not use the seal....for many reasons.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9920
Location: Orbiting San Diego
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
The transmission case has a tiny vent on the top to let pressure out. If this vent gets blocked then any pressure that builds inside the tranny pushes against the seals and fluid may escape or one of those flange plugs may simply push out. Clear the vent hole.
Mark |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
2wds have a vent hole and the Syncros have a dedicated vent line that starts at a banjo fitting in the same spot as the 2wds.
YES, keep them clean and free breathing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tlbranth
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2014
Posts: 209
Location: Carnation, Wa
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Called the dealer. Nobody within 1500 miles of here has one and the bastards want $27 for it. Ordered 2 from Van Café for $6 each. Leaving on a 2500 mile trip Friday and would just as soon have the thing right but what're you gonna do! Whereabouts is this vent hole? I might just clear that out and make sure the transmission level is correct.
_________________
Terry
1991 Westfailure. 2004 Forester 2.5 engine. 4speed Standard transmission. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16501
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tlbranth
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2014
Posts: 209
Location: Carnation, Wa
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In case this is of any help to anyone, I ordered a couple of the "drive flange caps" from Van Café. I wiped the area down with a paper towel and pressed the new cap in by hand - with a little force. Good call on the vent hole Crazy. I checked mine with a small drill bit and twirled it by hand. I'm pretty sure it is and was clear. Never would've known about it if you hadn't said though.
Lots of good help on this site.
_________________
Terry
1991 Westfailure. 2004 Forester 2.5 engine. 4speed Standard transmission. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
reinheitsgebot
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2015
Posts: 27
Location: mansfield, mass
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Oil seal behind CV joint - wobbly |
|
|
Interesting thread. I have the same problem with the tranny leaking. I assumed it was due to a bad seal but upon pulling the axle I found the flange cap had popped off. I'm in the process of rebuildng the CV's but that will be the first thing I'll be checking when I put the axles back in. However I'm a little skeptical about the vent hole being plugged causing the cap not to go in. I think the volume of air being compressed when putting the cap in would be miniscule. Also, I would think an increase of pressure in the transmission would tend to blow any crud from the vent hole before blowing out the flange cap. I would like to try blowing in air from the flange side somehow to see if there is any blockage. Anyway, I'm really curious to find out and I'll post my results.
_________________
'84 Westy
2WD 4 spd manual
Subaru 2.5 from NorthWesty
16" mercedes wheels with T3 hardware |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
