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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Joe your high speed stability is more to do with the front end caster angle because of the nose down stance , lower the rear and get the car level . fit caster wedges to increase the caster even more and it will be a different car to drive . |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Wreck wrote: |
Joe your high speed stability is more to do with the front end caster angle because of the nose down stance , lower the rear and get the car level . fit caster wedges to increase the caster even more and it will be a different car to drive . |
Yes! I think the factory RAISED the front end in 65-66 or thereabouts to INCREASE high-speed stability...
IIRC the rear , with its massive round shape creates most of the lift, so the rear raises, and raising the front brought it all into alignment.
It's soo fun to ditch fully dropped "racing"street cars by blowing over speed bumps in a stock suspended VW....you glide over, and pow! ...they're in the rearview, having to deal with a panic stop and some apron and exhaust scratching...
A really good little lesson in aerodynamics can be had by carefully studying the difference in shapes with the 69/70 type 3s. It's just a lesson, not a course, but there's something to be learned. Also, the 1300/1303 changes. Unfortunately, ugly seems to work better . |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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I thought i would be able to fit it between the frame horns and the deck lid hinge pedastols, but I can’t. So the hinge pedastols will have to go. I broke my rear window while removing it:(
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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As you can see it “fits”. I can get it in far enough forward to line up the axle outputs with the VW CV’s. I think I can even keep the Acura AC compressor in its stock location if I notch the frame horn a little. I think I’ll be able to close the deck lid too. But maybe I’ll have to tilt it out at the top or put a bulge in it to clear the throttle body. I think gearshift linkage won’t be too bad but the clutch is going to be worse than I thought.
I think my next task will be to install my 944t trailing arms and rear brakes. It will be more fun staring at 18” Turbo twists than those rusty VW wheels as I move along. I wanted to make sure I was going to clear the stock suspension before I did that swap |
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rodeking Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017 Posts: 367 Location: near Buffalo NY
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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You really need to get an AC TIG for welding aluminum castings. You have very little control with a MIG, once you hit the trigger you are laying bead, you have no choice. Unless you preheat the casting the penetration sucks until the base metal comes up to melt temp. That can take some time with ally because it tranfers heat away from the arc at such a high rate. And as a result you have porosity. With TIG you just start the arc and hold it until you have a nice melt pool then you start adding filler. Unless you're doing a lot of sheet metal work a TIG is the way to go. It will do a much nicer job on anything once you get the hang of it. |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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I’m sure you’re right about that.
On another note, I’m concerned about cv axle angles now. This drivetrain is much wider than a VW trans and my axle outputs are now higher than stock I think. What is the distance the output cv flange sits above the frame horn on a stick irs car? |
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Boolean Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012 Posts: 1712 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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914turboford wrote: |
I’m sure you’re right about that.
On another note, I’m concerned about cv axle angles now. This drivetrain is much wider than a VW trans and my axle outputs are now higher than stock I think. What is the distance the output cv flange sits above the frame horn on a stick irs car? |
Four inches lower than where you are in the pictures. You need to cut the frame horns away to lower the engine. _________________ I strive for perfection. Excellence will not be tolerated!
Build thread here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=529379 |
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veeweeman Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009 Posts: 940 Location: New Port Richey, FL
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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914turboford wrote: |
I’m sure you’re right about that.
On another note, I’m concerned about cv axle angles now. This drivetrain is much wider than a VW trans and my axle outputs are now higher than stock I think. What is the distance the output cv flange sits above the frame horn on a stick irs car? |
To be clear, the drive output should match the same height as the axle input shafts with the weight of the powertrain on the suspension, this is the shortest distance between the axles...then you will have equal travel up and down. ..you should install the powertrain as low as possible. |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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veeweeman wrote: |
914turboford wrote: |
I’m sure you’re right about that.
On another note, I’m concerned about cv axle angles now. This drivetrain is much wider than a VW trans and my axle outputs are now higher than stock I think. What is the distance the output cv flange sits above the frame horn on a stick irs car? |
To be clear, the drive output should match the same height as the axle input shafts with the weight of the powertrain on the suspension, this is the shortest distance between the axles...then you will have equal travel up and down. ..you should install the powertrain as low as possible. |
You are absolutely right. I reached that same conclusion. The reason the VW trans sits lower is that it fits between the horns. My drivetrain has approximately the same distance between the cv output and the lowest point of the sump, but it’s too wide to fit between the horns so I will need to cut them and make a new wider subframe. I think I will still get to use my 944 TAs though. I will tie into the torsion bar tubes and then support with a tube perpendicular to what’s left of the horns and I will also tie into the bumper shock mounts. That’s the working theory for now.
Good news is that I’ll get a lower CG and I’ll get my decklid hinges back |
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cbeck Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014 Posts: 2494 Location: high ridge, mo
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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My buddy is putting a supercharged gm 3800 in, but is also doing custom trailing arms in a baja. He cut pretty much out.
_________________ My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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veeweeman Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009 Posts: 940 Location: New Port Richey, FL
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Bumper support on a VW is not structural for supporting that kind of weight. ..you're gonna need to build a upper subframe off the torsion housing. ..everything on the vw is tied into the center frame not to mention that the VW trans weighs only 75 lbs with a 235lb motor. ..what you got there is like 600-750lbs, that is a big difference. ..if it were me in your shoes. ..I'd try to utilize the entire subframe and suspension from the donor power plant and tie that into the VW's frame...you might find it to be a little easier going that route. ..but if you insist on continuing the existing route. ..we're here for you too... |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Thanks that’s a good attitude considering the ungodly things I’m doing to this relatively rust free California 1303. I don’t see how using my the Acura subframe would help with the essential problem of cantilevering that load off of the pan at the torsion bar tube. I agree the bumper mounts can’t take a tremendous load but I think they will help. I also plan to run some rectangular tubing down the side of the body along The shock mounts back toward the bumper mounts. Ferdinand’s design to support the whole drivetrain on those two little horns was, as you say, based on the fact that the drivetrain was very light. But I think a little support (the bumper mounts) out at the end of that otherwise cantilevered load will make a big difference. I think what will actually provide that support is the roof and the body shell. |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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I cut off the frame horns and removed the bar from the front of engine. I have the engine positioned about 2” above the car’s axle CL. I think that’s about where it will sit once the car is supporting the engine, but of course I can and will adjust the ride height
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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What is the purpose of these rounded elongated holes in the horns? It will be convenient if I can cover them up. Do I need them to access the parking brake cables or something? |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Also, does anyone know how much the rear of a super rises after you remove the 1600DP and trans? |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Fuel lines
how much does it raise? I assume it is on the stops.
The down stops are not really very consistent. So, can't really say.
Assume ride height= the spring plates about level. |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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I already found the fuel line. It came out of a spot further back. I'm talking bout the elongated holes. They were covered by tape on this car. |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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