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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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I am wondering if anyone has explored using a 1st or 2nd gen Acura Legend drivetrain in an air cooled VW. I am specifically thinking about this for a Super Beetle 1303. I think this trans is basically a 2 piece design, with the differential sitting next to the oil pan. The diff is sitting closer to the front of the car. I am sure you would have to do some cutting into the luggage tray area and make an access panel to service the front of the engine. Obviously you would have to make a whole new rear sub frame to support everything. I am wondering if it would fit under stock body work. It's a crazy idea, and I'm just wondering if it has been tossed around here before.
I have done several swaps in my life. My DD is an Isuzu pickup powered by an LS1, and that is pretty mild compared to others I've done, and yes, I know anything will work if you throw enough time and money at it.
Last edited by 914turboford on Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Krochus Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017 Posts: 892 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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This looks remarkably like a BOPC bellhousing pattern.
I wish there was some readily adaptable late model transaxle for Buggy VW use that could handle some power. Unfortunately these are getting pretty old and aren’t going to be widely available much longer. |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3470 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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You'd be mounting it "mid-engined"; I don't think the height of the engine is the issue, but I'd try to get a measurement from the output of the transmission to the back of the transmission...from the looks of it, I suspect you'd have to cut away the apron in order to fit the back of the transmission within the engine bay. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Would the engine clear the output casting? Looks like it could be a close call. |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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anthracitedub wrote: |
Would the engine clear the output casting? Looks like it could be a close call. |
If i'm showing the right parts, yes. I believe all of those parts are Acura. So they are designed to go together. The first picture shows a complete engine/trans/dif assembly.
And yes, I think the trans might hit the apron, unfortunately. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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just put it in like vw did, with the engine in the rear. then just flip the diff assy. just like vw that would be sweet. a v6 even sweeter. or is that a v6? |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6983 Location: Durango, CO
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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1647 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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it'd be cool, but an LS would be even cooler😈 _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Onceler wrote: |
it'd be cool, but an LS would be even cooler😈 |
Quote: |
just put it in like vw did, with the engine in the rear. then just flip the diff assy. just like vw Wink that would be sweet. a v6 even sweeter. Shocked Razz or is that a v6? |
I originally became interested in this because I thought flipping the dif would be possible. I don't think it would still fit next to the oil pan though. The driver's side half shaft does pass through the oil pan. But flipping the dif means flipping the whole thing around, which would make it protrude too far into the luggage area.
I went to the JY and looked at a 5 cylinder longitudinal setup from an Acura yesterday, because I couldn't find a V6, which is what is in the picture above.
I will try to find a V6 Legend at a differernt yard this weekend, but at this part it doesn't look super promising. |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Cleaned up the wiring harness. It might not look too clean, but it's a lot better than what I started with.
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Flipped the intake manifold around so that the throttle body will point backward and be accessible under the engine lid.
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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More "progress", or at least more cutting stuff up. I have always had trouble making welds that are fluid tight. I only started welding aluminum (MIG spool gun) two years ago but even when I try to make something leak free with steel (MIG with Argon/CO2 mix) I always get leaks. On one of those housings I welded, checked, found leaks and repeated about 5 times. I am starting to doubt whether this was a good idea. With the amount of time I've spent on this so far, I could have crawled into the back seat to access the throttle body 20 times by now. Also, I fear that I'm introducing leaks that I'll have to chase down once the engine is in the car, and I'll end up crawling back there a lot for that too. I'm considering running this engine with a radiator on a stand before I put it in the car so I can find leaks before installation. Sounds fun, don't you think!
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Here is the welder I'm using
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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I made a cart to roll the drivetrain in. It is height adjustable at three points. My next planned step is to remove the rear apron, roll the cart under the car and see where I need to cut.
Last edited by 914turboford on Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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FullFender Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2014 Posts: 647
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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wow...this is going to be awesome. Do you know what type of power that engine will make? |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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FullFender wrote: |
wow...this is going to be awesome. Do you know what type of power that engine will make? |
Thanks! If I finish it! (I actually do have a pretty good track record for "finishing" builds, i.e., getting them running and registered, but you never know.
It is rated at 230hp stock at the crank. I am planning to add a low boost turbo (5-6psi) and hope to be right around 300 at the crank. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6031 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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I have been doing conversions over the years and one thing leads to another. The engine and tranny will be a lot of body cutting, plus hoses etc that all is a given.
But bugs are just not high speed cars. My bug has front and rear anti sway bars, dropped front end, etc. and with my 125 hp with my 914 bug, above 80 becomes dangerous with the light front end.
That is what I mean one thing leads to another - steering at high speeds. With that engine we are talking High Speeds. Also getting to the high speeds is going to be real fast. _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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914turboford Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 97 Location: Pollock Pines, CA 4000' Elevation
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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nextgen wrote: |
I have been doing conversions over the years and one thing leads to another. The engine and tranny will be a lot of body cutting, plus hoses etc that all is a given.
But bugs are just not high speed cars. My bug has front and rear anti sway bars, dropped front end, etc. and with my 125 hp with my 914 bug, above 80 becomes dangerous with the light front end.
That is what I mean one thing leads to another - steering at high speeds. With that engine we are talking High Speeds. Also getting to the high speeds is going to be real fast. |
Those are definitely concerns. I am concerned that with this drivetrain my CG will be moved back even further than a stock bug, exacerbating the problem. I am planning to move the battery to the front. And I will have a radiator and fans up front.
Do you have a front air dam? I think if I can keep air out from under the car that will help. I hope I don't need to resort to adding ballast to the front.
I honestly don't drive too fast. In my LS1 swapped mini truck I hardly ever see more than 80mph. But I do want this Beetle to handle well. I have 944t brakes up front and 944t trailing arms for the rear. I am using 911 18 inch wheels and big tires.
What are some other things I can do to add stability? |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26789 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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You can have a extremely rear-heavy weight bias and still be totally stable.
It is not hard to do. Make the suspension work in such a way it's ok, tune the tires and sway bars and springs, no problem.
What is hard to do is get every last % of the potential grip out of the tires in every direction and have a good handling balance, on all variety of surfaces, and in pursuit of that then you need to have equal weight bias.
Larger wheels will, all else the same, make it less stable, but they look cool??
The larger and/or heavier the wheel, the more will accentuate whatever the flex is in the suspension. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6031 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Longitudinal Acura Legend Drivetrain in a rear engine VW? |
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Funny we are all guilty of " one thing leads to another " but we don't care!!
It is our art, we want to be different.
I dropped my bug 2 1/2" with dropped front spindles then went 1" more lower in front with a low profile tire. I got the look I wanted but my steering got dangerous over 50mph. Doing new Tie rods, ball joints and recommendations from this forum and from John of Aircooled.net need to use two sets of shims and have have an alignment. What I did throw it off.
I like Highways speed but also like the wow effect when people see the car. With cell phones everywhere. People can't stop taking photos.
Bugs get more attention then some high price Italian Sports cars. Kids to Grandpa's love them.
You will make it work I am sure, or you will not be happy!!
_________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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